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How do you feel about President Trump?

Hey remember when the Trump administration tried to get rid of Net Neutrality even though NOBODY except the greedy ass ISPs wanted it? I remember...

Remember when he cracked down on bump stocks because OMG automatic fire! Oh noez! THINK OF THE CHILDREN.

He's also repealed a lot of environmental regulations which... I don't know on that one. I'm not an expert. But still, not a good look.

Also, Id have to read the full bills, regulations, etc. and listen to his reasoning as to why he made whatever choice he did. People cry about him shutting down a border bill and say he did that because he wants to use it as something he can run on, when in reality he shut it down because it included billions of dollars more to Ukraine.
 
and eventually fired them because the recommended help was no good.

Ajit Pai served for the entirety of Trump's presidency. He was chairman until Biden came in.

he appointed advisors based on others from the Republican parties recommendation

And yet he's still a part of the Republican party...

Remember Truth Social? How that was supposed to be some glorious bastion of free-speech? Turns out it was just a private Twitter clone incompetently run. Remember how Trump just brazenly used Twitter despite Twitter's (at the time) far left leanings for the staff? And then he got banned and cried about it. I remember.
 
None of what you said discredits nor disproves what I said or claimed. So...
 
None of what you said discredits nor disproves what I said or claimed. So...

Actually, I did. You said Trump later fired those people he thought at first were good recommendations but turned out to be corrupt. Well, Ajit Pai was clearly a corrupt asshole that nobody liked, yet he was allowed to keep his job for Trump's entire term. So...

Also, if he thinks the Republican party is corrupt now, then my point was, why is he still in it?

As to my other points, if you're a Trump supporter, then support Trump. Let's hear it. I wanna know what's so great about this fatass.
 
I don't know what his thoughts are on Ajit Pai. None of us do, so I can't comment upon his reasons for keeping him on.
I don't believe he thinks that the Republican party is corrupt, but certain individuals within the party are. RINOs and what not. I believe he would stay in the Republican party, for one reason being, that they haven't completely lost their mind like the left has. There's still potential in the GOP. The left is so gone that you can smell the rot.
 
I don't believe he thinks that the Republican party is corrupt

If that really is true, then he's stupid as fuck and doesn't belong in office. The whole party is rotten and has been for a VERY long time now. (Same for the dems too, but we're not talking about them right now.)

they haven't completely lost their mind like the left has.

And they say the exact same things on the left about the right. The problem isn't the left or the right, the problem is extremism. Blank and white thinking. And the democrats and republicans BOTH have a very vested interest in keeping that extremism alive and well.

In the end though, I'm certainly not voting for someone who is dumb enough to use their opposing party's privately owned platform as a non-redundant communications platform, and is also too dumb to even operate a Twitter clone.
 
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Except the insanity of the left has permeated in to our institutions. They control the vast majority of the media and churn out lie after lie about Trump (the reason for most of the hate he gets).

I don't really give a shit about his dealings with Twitter and Truth. That's not significant and too stupid for me to even discuss beyond this.
 
Except the insanity of the left has permeated in to our institutions.

And so has the right to a degree. I will say there seems to be more left extremism than right extremism, but honestly, who cares. Extremism is bad on whatever side it's on. Period. Left extremism seems to be (kinda) winning the popularity war at the moment. Either way though, we will suffer and this country will collapse. Both cliffs have the same crunchy end at the bottom even if the view when diving off one cliff versus another may be different.

I don't really give a shit about his dealings with Twitter and Truth.

You really fucking should because this is an indication of leadership ability. He can't run Truth Social correctly, how the fuck do you think he's gonna run a country?

By the way, you should check a look at our (now decommissioned) Congressional Blacklist on the Senate side. Democrats and Republicans as far as the eye can see both voting for bills that would fuck your rights up. I think the only thing that has stopped us from tipping forward into a complete political rights catastrophe right now is due to the disorder in both parties and the fact that they both know there's a fuckton of guns and ammo in the country that can easily be used against them at a moments notice. That is it. And oh boy, would they just love to take those away along with any privacy we have left.

Trump is not going to save you. Neither is Harris. In fact, the ONLY thing that will save us is uniting together and learning to put aside our differences and trying to be empathetic with one another. Also, firing pretty much everyone in the Senate.
 
And so has the right to a degree. I will say there seems to be more left extremism than right extremism, but honestly, who cares. Extremism is bad on whatever side it's on. Period. Left extremism seems to be (kinda) winning the popularity war at the moment. Either way though, we will suffer and this country will collapse. Both cliffs have the same crunchy end at the bottom even if the view when diving off one cliff versus another may be different.



You really fucking should because this is an indication of leadership ability. He can't run Truth Social correctly, how the fuck do you think he's gonna run a country?

By the way, you should check a look at our (now decommissioned) Congressional Blacklist on the Senate side. Democrats and Republicans as far as the eye can see both voting for bills that would fuck your rights up. I think the only thing that has stopped us from tipping forward into a complete political rights catastrophe right now is due to the disorder in both parties and the fact that they both know there's a fuckton of guns and ammo in the country that can easily be used against them at a moments notice. That is it. And oh boy, would they just love to take those away along with any privacy we have left.

Trump is not going to save you. Neither is Harris. In fact, the ONLY thing that will save us is uniting together and learning to put aside our differences and trying to be empathetic with one another. Also, firing pretty much everyone in the Senate.

I don't think he'll necessarily save us, but I think he's a step in the right direction. I believe that he does want to become president again so he can make positive changes in America.

Also, Trump doesn't run Truth Social. His company owns it, but other guys run it. I doubt he has much to do with it besides posting on it.

I'll also add that he is one of the hardest working politicians I've ever seen. The dude doesn't sleep.
 
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Even if it was brought up before, it's not good policy as a presidential candidate to incite fear off of hearsay. Not something that should be brought up during a presidential debate.
We can argue all day if it was wise or not, but the best possible thing happened after he said it: people started talking about it and investigating it. A video from a year ago was unearthed with some cats on a barbecue. That's proof enough that the culture clash exists, even it's only as substantial as hearsay.

What do you think of this study?
Honestly, TLDR, but it mentions Trump right in the preamble so I'm going to assume it's biased as fuck. I've seen similar studies that are designed to manufacture consent before, such as saying that illegal immigrants pay more taxes, which is absurdly false.

So would you define any kind of governmental control of corporations as Marxism?
No. There are regulations that need to be put on a market to prevent a monopoly from forming. That's rarely what I ever see anyone talking about. It's always a forced or completely deliberate misunderstanding of the situation, like saying the corporations in the recent years are hitting record profits while ignoring the severe inflation we've been seeing. There's no discussion in those statistics on if their margins have gone up or not (the answer is almost always not). If the margins haven't increased, then you can't level the "greedy corporation" accusations at them fairly while inflation is what it is.

The Supreme Court can indeed technically do that. The particulars may not be in their control (that's more the Executive branch than anything) but still, they're there to definitively decide legal issues that are in question. Now, you could definitely say that in RvW, they did a shit job, but that's another matter entirely.
My understanding of the court is it is their job to interpret the laws and the constitution. Not write them. It's the legislature's job to do the writing.
Maybe, but he was still asked about it. The very least he could do is provide rationale for changing the subject. But he didn't. He just barreled right into whatever the fuck he wanted to talk about.
I've heard his replies multiple times at this point. I'm sorry if you haven't heard them, but those moderators are always hostile to the point where they don't let anyone disagreeing with them speak, and if they do, then they get the last word in with their "fact check" to reinforce their world view. It's always ignoring important facts to get people to believe what they want them to believe, and not from a place of honesty. I'd rather he get in more substantial things on the air (such as eating pets), than worry about whether the questions were answered. I don't think it should be done for every question, but a few times is OK.
Not super relevant to my original point here, but do you have a source for this?
Admittedly, there is some extrapolation on my part, but it's becoming more and more likely that my first intuition was correct. I know the kind of people that went to the capitol for Trump's speech, and the general demeanor of such a person wouldn't be there to riot or vandalize. Even the day of the riot, there were videos of someone dressed in black bashing open a window, and you can hear a lady shouting "no antifa! no antifa!" Then once the rioter's were inside, most stayed inside the roped lanes, with only a small number doing the shitty things in the offices.

Then I heard about Ray Epps, and his role on getting people to go inside. Lastly, this video dropped in my feed the other day, and I didn't even watch it, but I just reviewed the first 20 seconds before collecting the link, and Massie is going over a recap of how little info was allowed to go on public record about FBI assets on the ground during the riot. If I'm somehow wrong in my assertions, I don't think there's many innocent and viable alternative explanations left to fall back on. The FBI did it.
Nobody does. Nobody has in my lifetime, politically. Maybe Lina Khan since she's actually FINALLY going after these fucking tech companies, but we'll see what happens with that. And that's not really inspiring so much as just good.

It wasn't until Trump that I felt the same way. No one is a perfect angel, and anyone that has the fortitude to make a billion dollars is going to have some rough edges in their personality. I don't need perfect, I just want someone that means what they say. I understand Trump makes you uncomfortable, but please understand that there is something there that people are latching onto, and it's not because they are all racist hicks or they want slaves and women barefoot in the kitchen. He's showing a path back to what we considered normal for America, and even if he can't get us down it, he's doing something new that everyone else has refused to try.

I strongly recommend you go watch the Robin Williams movie "Man of the Year." I saw it decades ago, and it made me realize that the only way we will ever see a politician worth a damn is one that's not really a politician. It's a good movie whether you are thinking of Trump or not, but you should still come away from the movie asking yourself what kind of person could rise up like the characters in the film but in real life. Look for those positive values as you go forward, because Trump is going to be gone soon, and we're going to need more people after him that will positively impact out country.

For all of Trump's faults, I see a lot of my family reflected in him and his family (There was a livestream with Don Jr where his wife jumped into the camera and that was 100% something my mom would do). It's almost like Molly Brown in the Titanic movie, where being "new money" makes him a different class of person from the rest of those that consider themselves elites. Having money isn't a sin, though I see plenty of people act like it is. It's what you do with it when it becomes a problem. Trump has lost money trying to be our leader. He could have dipped out at any time. He's not here to nudge his stock options in a direction like Nancy Pelosi. He survived a bullet grazing him, and if it was just about the money or power, that's a pretty good reason to dip out, because he can't enjoy either if he's dead. He's had enough of both in previous decades. But he keeps going, because he sees it as a fight for what is good and just in our country. It could be his ego driving him, but someone doing the right thing for ego is still someone doing the right thing.
Clearly not enough to have pardoned them when able though. Ashli Babbitt's family is suing the US gov for 30 million, does he especially support them or just her?
She was shot on the 6th, and he left office 2 weeks later. There wasn't time. He hasn't had power since then to do any pardoning. He stated in one stream that it wasn't even clear to him that they were innocent within those few days either. It wasn't until Tucker got ahold of the security footage that the "Jan 6th Shaman" was exonerated. Everyone just looked at him and paraded him in front of the cameras so he'd look goofy and therefore guilty.
 
the ONLY thing that will save us is uniting together and learning to put aside our differences and trying to be empathetic with one another.

That sort of sentiment being exploited by people under the guise of "tolerance" is what continues to get us into all sorts of messes in the first place.

Some of those "differences" are things like morals, values, and principles, and should not merely be "put aside".
 
they themselves ended up being part of the swamp/club. I believe he's learned his lesson.
Part of the reason I feel like voting doesn't matter is because of this right here. There is no politician/corporation/PAC/whatever that is not "the swamp" no good politicians, not a single one. Not even Trump.

Take immigration for example (just using it as an example because I'm very familiar with it)
Hart cellar act started in 1964, this basically means we would allow low iq unskilled laborers to immigrate. Few years later, Republicans are saying we have to stop immigration blah blah blah, then they said we have to stop illegal immigration, now it's stapling diplomas to green cards.

You mean to tell me, in all that time, nothing, literally nothing meaningful could ever be done, on a law that was never voted on, that Americans didn't want?
 
. In fact, the ONLY thing that will save us is uniting together and learning to put aside our differences and trying to be empathetic with one another. Also, firing pretty much everyone in the Senate.
Let me ask you this, what makes someone American?
 
That sort of sentiment being exploited by people under the guise of "tolerance" is what continues to get us into all sorts of messes in the first place.

Some of those "differences" are things like morals, values, and principles, and should not merely be "put aside".
Houseman nails it once again.
Should we tolerate Muslims having child brides?
What about jews having slaves?

Of course we should not tolerate that kind of crap. Morality is not subjective.
 
I don't think he'll necessarily save us, but I think he's a step in the right direction. I believe that he does want to become president again so he can make positive changes in America.

Also, Trump doesn't run Truth Social. His company owns it, but other guys run it. I doubt he has much to do with it besides posting on it.

I'll also add that he is one of the hardest working politicians I've ever seen. The dude doesn't sleep.

Before I continue further, I'd actually like to thank you for your patience in discussing this stuff. I do notice and appreciate it.

Trump doesn't run Truth Social. His company owns it, but other guys run it.

He owns the company. It's his responsibility. That's how leadership and ownership works. Power equals responsibility.

people started talking about it and investigating it. A video from a year ago was unearthed with some cats on a barbecue.

The question isn't whether it happened or not. Of course it happened. The question is whether it's actually happening with serious regularity. The United States has over 300 million people living in it. SOMEONE'S going to be eating a cat or dog in there. Probably several. The video doesn't really prove anything in the end.

Honestly, TLDR

C'mon man... I appreciate the honesty, but c'mon.

There are regulations that need to be put on a market to prevent a monopoly from forming. That's rarely what I ever see anyone talking about.

Yeah, rather convenient, that.

My understanding of the court is it is their job to interpret the laws and the constitution.

If a law is so vague/broad that it needs interpreting, then you cannot interpret without writing more law. For example, the 1st Amendment says the government shall not abridge the right to free speech. Does that mean I can lie all I want about my products when I own a business?

I've heard his replies multiple times at this point. I'm sorry if you haven't heard them,

Wait, I'm a little confused here. Are you saying he directly addressed this complaint?

Massie is going over a recap of how little info was allowed to go on public record about FBI assets on the ground during the riot.

Assuming this is true (I would need to see the actual public record released), there's actually another possible explanation for this. The FBI was being incompetent during the riot and wanted to cover their ass.

No one is a perfect angel

And I don't expect anyone running for president to be, believe it or not. Hell, JFK used to bang girls in the oval office on the regular, but I still think he was an incredible president who got us out of a fucking terrible time in history. What I look at is, off the top of my head, how they treat others under them and how they manage the assets they do have. I'd have to think about it a bit more if you want a more in-depth answer, but regardless, I've seen Trump's history of management and his recent history of management and it's pretty damn bad.

"By their fruits, ye shall know them."

Although you could say I'm not analyzing those fruits correctly, and that's perfectly fair to bring up.

I understand Trump makes you uncomfortable, but please understand that there is something there that people are latching onto

Well of course there's something there that people latch onto. For example, a ton of people also buy Apple products because they're prestigious and they think that they "just work" and are "leading innovation." But the prestige is purely a social construct and the other two are mostly false. In the case of Trump, when he first came onto the political scene, he made a HUGE splash and made himself look very attractive to the conservative party as a metaphorical brick thrown through the US government window. People on the conservative side are mad. They're angry. They're scared. They want immediate action. They're tired of gun rights being trampled. They're tired of small businesses being crushed by large ones. They're tired of more taxes that don't seem to go anywhere. They're tired of the middle class becoming smaller and smaller. Among many other things.

Trump promises catharsis after a long while of the conservative portion being left in the dark. But...

Roger Zelazny said:
Personal feelings don't make for good politics, legal decisions, or business deals.

And while the conservative portion is supporting Trump, the liberal portion is ALSO getting freaked out. They're scared that transgender peoples will have much less medical coverage. Will be seen as less human. They're scared of important environmental regulations being possibly destroyed in favor of more company profits. They're scared of companies enjoying even LESS regulation than they already have now. They're scared of the acceptance of more racist attitudes. They're scared of the US government making deals with authoritarian shitbag countries. Among many other things as well. So THEY'RE becoming more militant and radical too.

The left and the right both have some great points on their side, but emotions and fear are blinding each side and driving them further and further apart. The two CAN meet in the middle and begin to understand each other, and the middle is where the full truth is, but there has to be a start, and voting for one extreme over another is NOT going to solve things nor is it even a "step in the right direction". It will, in fact, harm us further as a country. Now excuse me while I be especially nerdy here and quote Elrond from The Fellowship of the Ring.

Middle-Earth stands upon the brink of destruction. None can escape it. You will unite or you will fall.

He's showing a path back to what we considered normal for America, and even if he can't get us down it, he's doing something new that everyone else has refused to try.

Ahhh, but it's through the mistakes of the past, long developing, that got us all into this mess in the first place. There is much that is good in the past, but there is also much evil. At times, we have to start asking ourselves a simple question. "Can this be better?" If we never asked ourselves that, we wouldn't even have the United States in the first place.

Benjamin Franklin said:
In 200 years will people remember us as traitors or heros? That is the question we must ask.

Sorry. I'm on a bit of a quoting spree here.

I strongly recommend you go watch the Robin Williams movie "Man of the Year."

Actually, it's funny you say that, because (I think) that movie was what first started disillusioning me from both the Democrat and Republican party long ago and got me to think about how much we need a third party that addresses both left and right concerns. I should watch it again sometime.

we're going to need more people after him that will positively impact out country.

And that is you. Directly. You have power, whether you realize it or not. You ALL here have the power to change the world for better or for worse. Take control of your own agency. Be the change you want to see in your communities. You don't have to be perfect, but even just an honest attempt is worthy of great praise.

It's almost like Molly Brown in the Titanic movie, where being "new money" makes him a different class of person from the rest of those that consider themselves elites.

Except Trump has a very long track record of scamming to get to where he's at now.

Trump has lost money trying to be our leader. He could have dipped out at any time.

Actually this is true... But let's not forget the power inherent in the presidential position. Also, who knows. Maybe he's actually being paid off by hidden third parties to run for president. But that's just speculation on my part though. And finally, remember,

The Oracle - Matrix Reloaded said:
What do all men with power want? More power.

That sort of sentiment being exploited by people under the guise of "tolerance" is what continues to get us into all sorts of messes in the first place.

Some of those "differences" are things like morals, values, and principles, and should not merely be "put aside".

Ok, but what are you and I doing here, Houseman, on this site?

Let me ask you this, what makes someone American?

Good question. My answer is for someone to be fully American, they need to support the Bill of Rights fully at minimum and speak English, OR have an honest desire to learn it.
 
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Before I continue further, I'd actually like to thank you for your patience in discussing this stuff. I do notice and appreciate it.



He owns the company. It's his responsibility. That's how leadership and ownership works. Power equals responsibility.



The question isn't whether it happened or not. Of course it happened. The question is whether it's actually happening with serious regularity. The United States has over 300 million people living in it. SOMEONE'S going to be eating a cat or dog in there. Probably several. The video doesn't really prove anything in the end.



C'mon man... I appreciate the honesty, but c'mon.



Yeah, rather convenient, that.



If a law is so vague/broad that it needs interpreting, then you cannot interpret without writing more law. For example, the 1st Amendment says the government shall not abridge the right to free speech. Does that mean I can lie all I want about my products when I own a business?



Wait, I'm a little confused here. Are you saying he directly addressed this complaint?



Assuming this is true (I would need to see the actual public record released), there's actually another possible explanation for this. The FBI was being incompetent during the riot and wanted to cover their ass.



And I don't expect anyone running for president to be, believe it or not. Hell, JFK used to bang girls in the oval office on the regular, but I still think he was an incredible president who got us out of a fucking terrible time in history. What I look at is, off the top of my head, how they treat others under them and how they manage the assets they do have. I'd have to think about it a bit more if you want a more in-depth answer, but regardless, I've seen Trump's history of management and his recent history of management and it's pretty damn bad.

"By their fruits, ye shall know them."

Although you could say I'm not analyzing those fruits correctly, and that's perfectly fair to bring up.



Well of course there's something there that people latch onto. For example, a ton of people also buy Apple products because they're prestigious and they think that they "just work" and are "leading innovation." But the prestige is purely a social construct and the other two are mostly false. In the case of Trump, when he first came onto the political scene, he made a HUGE splash and made himself look very attractive to the conservative party as a metaphorical brick thrown through the US government window. People on the conservative side are mad. They're angry. They're scared. They want immediate action. They're tired of gun rights being trampled. They're tired of small businesses being crushed by large ones. They're tired of more taxes that don't seem to go anywhere. They're tired of the middle class becoming smaller and smaller. Among many other things.

Trump promises catharsis after a long while of the conservative portion being left in the dark. But...



And while the conservative portion is supporting Trump, the liberal portion is ALSO getting freaked out. They're scared that transgender peoples will have much less medical coverage. Will be seen as less human. They're scared of important environmental regulations being possibly destroyed in favor of more company profits. They're scared of companies enjoying even LESS regulation than they already have now. They're scared of the acceptance of more racist attitudes. They're scared of the US government making deals with authoritarian shitbag countries. Among many other things as well. So THEY'RE becoming more militant and radical too.

The left and the right both have some great points on their side, but emotions and fear are blinding each side and driving them further and further apart. The two CAN meet in the middle and begin to understand each other, and the middle is where the full truth is, but there has to be a start, and voting for one extreme over another is NOT going to solve things nor is it even a "step in the right direction". It will, in fact, harm us further as a country. Now excuse me while I be especially nerdy here and quote Elrond from The Fellowship of the Ring.





Ahhh, but it's through the mistakes of the past, long developing, that got us all into this mess in the first place. There is much that is good in the past, but there is also much evil. At times, we have to start asking ourselves a simple question. "Can this be better?" If we never asked ourselves that, we wouldn't even have the United States in the first place.



Sorry. I'm on a bit of a quoting spree here.



Actually, it's funny you say that, because (I think) that movie was what first started disillusioning me from both the Democrat and Republican party long ago and got me to think about how much we need a third party that addresses both left and right concerns. I should watch it again sometime.



And that is you. Directly. You have power, whether you realize it or not. You ALL here have the power to change the world for better or for worse. Take control of your own agency. Be the change you want to see in your communities. You don't have to be perfect, but even just an honest attempt is worthy of great praise.



Except Trump has a very long track record of scamming to get to where he's at now.



Actually this is true... But let's not forget the power inherent in the presidential position. Also, who knows. Maybe he's actually being paid off by hidden third parties to run for president. But that's just speculation on my part though. And finally, remember,





Ok, but what are you and I doing here, Houseman, on this site?



Good question. My answer is for someone to be fully American, they need to support the Bill of Rights fully at minimum and speak English, OR have an honest desire to learn it.

Thank you and it's great to be a part of a forum that allows for free discussion without being banned for giving my opinion or observation, ie woke agendas that are being pushed in the media. Which was the last subject matter that I was attempting to discuss on another forum before being hit with 9 moderations and my account being suspended.

I honestly think, and people will still think it's foolish of him, but I think he only started Truth Social so that he could get his word out. I don't think his goal was BIG SOCIAL MEDIA APP THAT WILL BE UBER SUCCESSFUL! He has "fuck you" money and I believe he wants his legacy to be that he helped bring America to a height of greatness the likes of which has never been seen in our history. Will he achieve that? No, most likely not, but I pray that he gets a lot of good shit done. Everything that is part of his Project 47, I agree with and support. Given the chance and if he surrounds himself with the right people, the types of highly intelligent, wise, and experienced advisors and professionals; he really could do great things.

The elite and worse yet, the deep state (I do believe it's a thing for the most part) absolutely hate him and have thrown everything they can at him.
The Summer of Love, during his term. COVID. Lawfare. Assassination attempts. He's not a trusted member of their club and they want him out so they can continue guiding the machine towards its final destination.
 
There wasn't time.
he left office 2 weeks later.
There was time, 2 weeks of it
Thomas Jefferson had 8 days, fucker got it done
She was shot on the 6th
They were worth a phone call over half a year later to share his support. I'd post the internet archive of it but apparently they are getting ddos'd. Couldn't tell you of anything further past that
He stated in one stream that it wasn't even clear to him that they were innocent within those few days either. It wasn't until Tucker got ahold of the security footage that the "Jan 6th Shaman" was exonerated. Everyone just looked at him and paraded him in front of the cameras so he'd look goofy and therefore guilty.
Whole event was a clusterfuck

https://capitol-hill-riots.s3.us-east-1.wasabisys.com/directory.html

Some were let in, others used force, something about doors apparently glitching, planted pipe bombs I heard. Lots of videos, easy to cherry pick from and push a narrative. Easy to understand why the team mascot got the hammer
 
Talking about it?

Exactly. We're here to discuss things with all kinds of people. The main point of Sanctuary is to broaden our view of the world and the people in it using free speech under the forum format. Barring certain very light rules, we don't prohibit anyone from coming in here and talking. So do you think we're being too "tolerant?"
 
Exactly. We're here to discuss things with all kinds of people. The main point of Sanctuary is to broaden our view of the world and the people in it using free speech under the forum format. Barring certain very light rules, we don't prohibit anyone from coming in here and talking. So do you think we're being too "tolerant?"

Allow me to interject a bit at this point..

In all fairness, I do think the rules are too lenient when it comes to dealing with the tactics employed by SJW's and Neo-Nazis when they decide to engage. When they can't become middle-men (like community managers or moderators or similar) they come in force. Each one creating numerous alt-sleepers (mostly for voting but also) to dog-pile, sea-lion, and JAQing off and likewise harass "dissenters/heretics" to their creed. They lie freely about who posters are, what they've posted and generally create a hostile environment that chase people away. They make full use of all the argumentative fallacies. Ad Hominems, strawmanning, mott and bailey, appeal to authority, Reductio ad absurdum, majority/popularity = truth, etc etc (only the first infraction point even touches on it). If that fails, as it rarely does, they start posting gore and CP, start badmouthing the site elsewhere, and then move onto reporting the site for it to their host and three letter agencies. If they can't control it, they'll do anything to leave it a ghost-town, or just a ghost..
 
Exactly. We're here to discuss things with all kinds of people. The main point of Sanctuary is to broaden our view of the world and the people in it using free speech under the forum format. Barring certain very light rules, we don't prohibit anyone from coming in here and talking. So do you think we're being too "tolerant?"

You can be as tolerant as you want if you're separated.

That doesn't work when you inhabit the same living area, say, a house, a company, or a country. That's what I was referring to. People say "oh just put aside your differences and have empathy" as they force you to live next to somebody who cooks meth, or believes in "honor killings". That's the kind of tolerance that that gets us into messes. I'm talking about IRL stuff, immigration, not internet stuff.
 
You can be as tolerant as you want if you're separated.

That doesn't work when you inhabit the same living area, say, a house, a company, or a country. That's what I was referring to. People say "oh just put aside your differences and have empathy" as they force you to live next to somebody who cooks meth, or believes in "honor killings". That's the kind of tolerance that that gets us into messes. I'm talking about IRL stuff, immigration, not internet stuff.

I'm seeing the similarities here. In a nut-shell, it's "ghettoization". Some people make a place so bad that everyone else leaves. Be it a house, a neighborhood (Salem gang wars), a state (California exodus), or a country (Middle-East Refugees). Same for Online gatherings.
 
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Each one creating numerous alt-sleepers (mostly for voting

We don't have voting almost entirely, so this is rendered completely null. Also, we purge accounts that have sat too long with zero posts.

to dog-pile, sea-lion, and JAQing off and likewise harass "dissenters/heretics" to their creed.

Spamming is a bannable offense. Derailing a thread is an infraction-worthy offense. Derailing by harassing is an infraction-worthy offense.

It should also be noted that if there's enough recent threads under a specific subject for it to qualify, Sanctuary will simply merge threads or just make another sub-forum entirely and put threads under that subject in there until things finally start quieting down, then we remerge the threads back into the main sub-forum afterwards. This ensures that sub-forum flooding is impossible. Thus, if, say, a neo-nazi is making all kinds of threads in a newly created, say, Racism sub-forum and you don't want to engage with that content anymore, all you have to do is ignore that sub-forum and you're good to go. No freedom of speech is infringed and no flooding gets through.

Forums really are the master race social media. lol

If that fails, as it rarely does, they start posting gore and CP

Which means we'll have to employ the ban hammer pretty heavily and maybe even shut down registration for a bit if it gets bad enough. I've been there before...

start badmouthing the site elsewhere

Good.

and then move onto reporting the site for it to their host

Our host really seems to be pretty awesome and gives us our space. And even if they did give a shit, we can explain. And even if they didn't allow us to explain, then we move to another host and come back online within a day. Maybe not even that.

and three letter agencies.

Probably already watching this site, let's be real here.

You can be as tolerant as you want if you're separated.

That doesn't work when you inhabit the same living area, say, a house, a company, or a country. That's what I was referring to. People say "oh just put aside your differences and have empathy" as they force you to live next to somebody who cooks meth, or believes in "honor killings". That's the kind of tolerance that that gets us into messes. I'm talking about IRL stuff, immigration, not internet stuff.

I should say I'm not talking about living with them, I'm talking merely about discussing things with them. Yeah, it's not always going to work, but even if it gets them to soften their position a little, even that is significant. Just because someone still doesn't agree with your position doesn't mean you didn't make a good impression on them.
 

All of which sounds good on paper, but depends on you (a single individual) being able to keep up the constant moderation 24/7 for a thousand accounts. If you try to delegate, you risk elevating the same-self troublemakers. I do agree that if you stay the same benevolent forum ruler, a runaway doomsday scenario is unlikely to occur. It's the least worst form of forum we have after all.
 
If you try to delegate, you risk elevating the same-self troublemakers.

Maybe, but even worst case scenario, it's nothing that can't be investigated and remedied. I also have a policy of not bringing people on, period, if I feel like they're not qualified for it. Doesn't matter how buried I am in moderation work.
 
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