Theistic Isolationism

[Arnox]

You don't have to get up early to go to church, donate money, time, and energy, or change yourself to fit in with other people's expectations.

But you shouldn't be doing something just because other people, or even deities, expect it of you, even if you're a Christian or other faith. You should be doing something because you truly believe it to be the right thing to do.

You also don't have to follow anyone else's rules and restrictions... You can do what you want, on your own schedule. And that alone makes it more convenient.

If this was a mere hedonistic snatch at leisure and/or pleasure, I assure you, I could have achieved such much more easily if I, say, went and invoked some greek gods like Aphrodite or perhaps some demons like Lilith and made pacts. Or at least, attempted to. They do not accept just anyone for the asking. But yes, there are many roads I could walk down that assure much more results for less effort than what I'm doing.

It's like starting a company versus just getting a job at an existing one. Sure, you have much more freedom when you start your own company, but that's exactly the issue, isn't it. You have much more freedom, and thus, much more possibility to screw something up. Maybe even screw something up massively. With a job, you just do the task you're assigned and that's that. Everything else is not your problem.

We don't know what progress, if any, you have made.

And you probably never truly will until you die, perhaps. But then, that's true for anyone. It doesn't matter if it seems on the outside that someone is devout. They could secretly be hiding dark desires and curses in their heart. But as Christ says, "By their fruits, ye shall know them." A good bit of wisdom I also go by, even if it's not entirely infallible.

On a sidenote, I actually like a lot of what Christ says and have incorporated much of his advice into my life and doings, even if not everything. For example, his advice on not making promises is very good.

 

[Houseman]

But yes, there are many roads I could walk down that assure much more results for less effort than what I'm doing.

The point is, I'm accusing you of not putting in any effort at all. That's why I'm saying your path is easier and more convenient. You don't have to do anything.

It's like the people who say "the bar is my church" or whatever. They're just doing what they normally do and then claiming that they're doing something spiritual when called out on their inactivity.

It's like starting a company versus just getting a job at an existing one.

It's not, because starting and maintaining a company takes time, effort, and sacrifices and the proof of such things can be plainly seen.

I'd say it's like registering a company, vs actually building a company to the level where one can sustain several employees. Registering a company does not require any more effort than filling out a form. Anyone can do it. Anyone can call themselves an owner of their own company. It means nothing. Actually being a company that has customers and employees is the part that takes effort.

You've just done the paperwork. You ain't making money. You haven't even taken out a loan.

 

[Arnox]

The point is, I'm accusing you of not putting in any effort at all. That's why I'm saying your path is easier and more convenient. You don't have to do anything.

You just assume that I'm not doing anything though. In fact, there's an awful lot of assumptions of non-sacrifices made in here. No, I may not have to get up at 6 am every week, but I do have to maintain and make sure this site stays at least a little active and is fully maintained and paid for at ALL times. No, I don't have to hang around at street corners trying to tell people about my religion. But I do have to bail out a family member I technically owe nothing to and barely even know, spending five straight days busting my ass and even having to deal with a fuckton of family drama as a cherry on top.

But I don't talk about any of that because it's not good form. I'm not here to do self-congratulatory pats on the back. And in any case, what are we really talking about and comparing here? How many metaphorical lashes are owed by being in a certain religion?

"In my religion, I have to take 10 lashes a week!"
"That's nothing. I have to take 50 lashes a week!"
"Pft. I have to take 50 lashes a DAY!"
And here in the corner is someone just quietly trying to make the world a better place through whatever efforts they can do.

Could I do better? Certainly. Could I do more for others? Absolutely. I'm not perfect. There's always room for improvement. But that was never the claim at all here anyway.

 

[Houseman]

You just assume that I'm not doing anything though.

Correct!

but I do have to maintain and make sure this site stays at least a little active

I'm just talking about your "spiritual journey", not being a forum admin or anything else you have to do in life.

And in any case, what are we really talking about and comparing here?

We're talking about your "spiritual journey" and whether or not involves hard work or not, and whether or not it's more convenient.

Seems to me you're working on it like Brian's been working on his novel.

 

[Vendor-Lazarus]

We're talking about your "spiritual journey" and whether or not involves hard work or not, and whether or not it's more convenient.

How well are you following the five Vedic precepts to escape Samsara?

 

[Arnox]

Seems to me you're working on it like Brian's been working on his novel.

I literally laughed out loud. Thank you for that.

But yes, alright, I understand what you're saying now. So, as an example, what would you consider "making progress" on this journey then?

How well are you following the five Vedic precepts to escape Samsara?

But Houseman is a Jehovah's Witness. im confus

 

[Houseman]

But yes, alright, I understand what you're saying now. So, as an example, what would you consider "making progress" on this journey then?

I want you to spend 5 hours a week working on it, and every month, write a blogpost or something about what you've learned, and get criticized.

 

[Arnox]

I want you to spend 5 hours a week working on it, and every month, write a blogpost or something about what you've learned, and get criticized.

You want to learn about my deep-dives into magick, reincarnation, working with spirits, and energy work through meditation? That's going really far into the deep-end, and most people, for many understandable reasons, aren't ready for any of that stuff. I mean, look at how the ye olde tulpa thread went. And that was a purely mental technique.

 

[Houseman]

You want to learn about my deep-dives into magick, reincarnation, working with spirits, and energy work through meditation?

I don't want to learn about that, no, I just want you to do the work if you're going to keep on talking about how "inconvenient" it is.

 

[Arnox]

I don't want to learn about that, no, I just want you to do the work if you're going to keep on talking about how "inconvenient" it is.

Because it IS spiritually very inconvenient, Houseman, even if it's not necessarily physically so. There are many ways something can be uncomfortable and undesirable. For example, when some shit went down, I'd at least be able to pray to a god for help and put my faith in the hope that someday, it would all be right. But now, something terrible happens, guess who you get to pray and look up to. Nobody! :)

Now, hey, if you personally don't believe I'm making any progress, that's fine. Maybe you'll never really believe that, no matter what I do. But it doesn't matter. We all have our own paths to worry about.

 

[Houseman]

But it doesn't matter.

It does not.

 

[Arnox]

Bump for update.

Lately, I've been exploring more occult circles and their deities. I've talked to priests, priestesses, channelers, general magick users, and just plain old friends who follow some of these deities. I've also been both talking and listening to some Christian fellows...

And regardless of all that work, I've arrived right back at the same damn spot I was in before.

I'm mad and depressed and feel alone.

It really does seem to be Oops! All Egregores. Beings with varying amounts of truth and power, and all of them varying amounts of dangerous. I cannot believe we have at very least over 5,000 years of humans dealing with these beings and PRECIOUS FEW ever think to ask these deities basic questions. Or if they ask why, to think about the answers given and see if they line up with basic critical thinking before blindly accepting them as truth.

This world could be so cool if we wanted it to be. But so much of that potential has been utterly pissed away by the lamest excuses and the most egregious lies. And at the root of it all? Selfishness... But I digress. Despite what I said, I'm no longer actually mad at these egregores anymore. Every one of them is created as they are, and they are going to act as created. Nothing more or less. It's like getting mad at a toaster for making toast. But you know... Just perhaps... Just MAYBE we should stop worshiping and following everything our fucking toasters pop out at us. What do ya'll say, huh? How about it???

I hated Gorrik once. Resented how oblivious he was to me- to me, to the world. Now... I don't feel anything. Sitting on these crumbling ruins at the edge of the world, I'm looking out at emptiness. We're like ants. Scuttling through life until we die; then nothing's left but bones and rubble. The stars, the gods, the dragons... Our lives are a rounding error on the scale of their existence... Screw it. I won't be a rounding error.

 

[Houseman]

I'm mad and depressed and feel alone.

Only the truth will bring true satisfaction.

 

[Vendor-Lazarus]

Once one realizes that any and all gods are just mental fabrications, the need for organizing disparate notions of fictional constructs evaporates away. Occam's Razor is good rule of thumb.

 

[Arnox]

Only the truth will bring true satisfaction.

Sometimes the truth hurts. A lot.

Once one realizes that any and all gods are just mental fabrications, the need for organizing disparate notions of fictional constructs evaporates away. Occam's Razor is good rule of thumb.

The atheistic view cannot explain everything. Just for starters, tell me how a New York farmboy wrote the Book of Mormon entirely from scratch without any outside help at the quality level the Book of Mormon is at.

 

[Lost-Zeneration-99]

Yeah I feel like I been at points like this. You start to feel like you cant fit in to the mold that most people have. I feel it more you have to address what your looking for and what is your worldview, find what in your heart. Just be discerning on what you hear.

 

[Vendor-Lazarus]

The atheistic view cannot explain everything. Just for starters, tell me how a New York farmboy wrote the Book of Mormon entirely from scratch without any outside help at the quality level the Book of Mormon is at.

Unlike religion, it doesn't attempt to explain everything, just what can be explained.

Telling you how a farmboy wrote a fiction book is entirely in the realm of possible. It's called imagination. As for the Quality, that's debatable, and if one wasn't there when it was written, then a re-write later would explain most of it.

 

[Houseman]

Sometimes the truth hurts. A lot.

Jesus said that whoever wants to follow him must be willing to suffer persecution.

 

[Vendor-Lazarus]

Jesus said that whoever wants to follow him must be willing to suffer persecution.

That has nothing to do with truth, and is just a self-serving phrase that essentially brainwashes a person to believe the first lie they're told even more when they're told it's false. By that notion, flat earthers are oppressed for telling the truth.

 

[Arnox]

Unlike religion, it doesn't attempt to explain everything, just what can be explained.

Telling you how a farmboy wrote a fiction book is entirely in the realm of possible. It's called imagination. As for the Quality, that's debatable, and if one wasn't there when it was written, then a re-write later would explain most of it.

Well, when I say quality, I mean in many objective measures. For example, the Book of Mormon links directly back to the Bible in ways only a major scholar of it could do, and even then, it's debatable. It also matches Biblical "tones" and uses specific Biblical writing styles that, again, a farmboy would never know about. There's also the fact that considering the breadth of the book's content and considering all the pressure Joseph Smith was under at the time, he was able to finish "writing" the book in a ridiculously fast amount of time.

 

[Houseman]

That has nothing to do with truth, and is just a self-serving phrase that essentially brainwashes a person to believe the first lie they're told even more when they're told it's false. By that notion, flat earthers are oppressed for telling the truth.

No one executes or jails flat-earthers for being flat-earthers, do they?

 

[Vendor-Lazarus]

Well, when I say quality, I mean in many objective measures. For example, the Book of Mormon links directly back to the Bible in ways only a major scholar of it could do, and even then, it's debatable. It also matches Biblical "tones" and uses specific Biblical writing styles that, again, a farmboy would never know about. There's also the fact that considering the breadth of the book's content and considering all the pressure Joseph Smith was under at the time, he was able to finish "writing" the book in a ridiculously fast amount of time.

Sounds to me like he'd read the bible a few times before then. It's the most logical and reasonable explanation.

 

[Vendor-Lazarus]

No one executes or jails flat-earthers for being flat-earthers, do they?

I didn't say they do, nor did you.. but they are ridiculed, laughed at, and ignored. They are banned from many places they go to. They are persecuted.

 

[Arnox]

Sounds to me like he'd read the bible a few times before then. It's the most logical and reasonable explanation.

Just trust me, man. I could really get into the nitty-gritty of all this, but to summarize it all up, there is NO way Joseph Smith could have made up the entire Book of Mormon with his existing knowledge and skillset and especially with the time he was given. I don't think he even had what would amount to a modern high school education in terms of what he knew.

 

[Vendor-Lazarus]

Just trust me, man. I could really get into the nitty-gritty of all this, but to summarize it all up, there is NO way Joseph Smith could have made up the entire Book of Mormon with his existing knowledge and skillset and especially with the time he was given. I don't think he even had what would amount to a modern high school education in terms of what he knew.

From what you've been told... There is certainly nothing strange about it, if you consider how you dismiss the other religions foundings and sacred texts. Or are you saying they're equally valid and supernatural?