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"You're probably still a normie if you use Linux."

Arnox

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(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlS93d2nu30)

This is both a pretty funny take and an interesting one coming from seemingly one of those stereotypical fedora-tipping neckbeards. But hey, you know, sometimes the neckbeards might have something interesting to contribute. Let's talk about this a bit.

I think the video author here is mainly just annoyed about the superiority that some Linux users have just because they, for example, installed Arch successfully or even Gentoo. He says all of that just proves that you can read and maybe work with a compiler on a very surface level. In his opinion, what actually makes someone an advanced user or "non-normie" is someone who contributes to Linux somehow, usually through code or someone who actually understands at least basic electrical engineering.

I think this is a pretty simple view to take here and it heavily depends on the perspective with which you view things. On a very general global level, the average computer user may barely even use Windows, much less use Linux. On that level, all Linux users (putting aside Android here) can be comfortably considered advanced users as even just installing Linux implies someone reaching out past the norm and looking for something else and being willing to try something new. Many people just... Won't. Not until they're actively pushed into it anyway. All that said, if we're limiting our scope to just Linux users purely, then yes, doing something like installing Arch would, I imagine, still make you a "normie".

There is one other thing too, and that is the implication that if you're a normie, doesn't matter at what thing or software you level criticism at, it's not valid. Look, sometimes, man, people don't need a degree to tell you that your UI sucks ass. They don't need a degree to tell you that your program does not sufficiently cover the scope that you said it would. And they don't need a degree to tell you that there are bugs in the program that you either haven't found yet or, for whatever reason, are ignoring. But it is true that you still always need to consider context as well. A "normie" may still be able to tell you if your UI is bad, but if they then try to give coding suggestions and they haven't written any code in their life, then yes, you can probably safely disregard what they're saying.
 

Signa

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TLDW, but the basic premise is a joke. I'm far from a normie, and I've been dabbling in Mint, and honestly, I despise it. A lot of my issues stem from having to fight decades of muscle memory from using Windows, but for all their faults, Microsoft products teach you how to use them just by looking at them closely. I'm getting no such help from Linux. This has been an extremely large problem with using command line. In Dos, I can always add a /? to the end of any command, and it will tell me what it does and what my options are. I don't get any such help from the console in Linux.

Worse yet, because of all the distributions, if I search up the problem I'm having, I'll get some other command to run to try to fix the problem, but it will be stated only in a form that doesn't work on my machine, and there's no clear way to resolve it. I'm constantly getting stuck due to lack of information. It doesn't help how much the console commands rely on abbreviations you just need to be in the know about. It's like trying to run my computer on Cockney Rhyming Slang, because it only makes sense once it's explained.
 

Arnox

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TLDW, but the basic premise is a joke. I'm far from a normie, and I've been dabbling in Mint, and honestly, I despise it. A lot of my issues stem from having to fight decades of muscle memory from using Windows, but for all their faults, Microsoft products teach you how to use them just by looking at them closely. I'm getting no such help from Linux. This has been an extremely large problem with using command line. In Dos, I can always add a /? to the end of any command, and it will tell me what it does and what my options are. I don't get any such help from the console in Linux.

Worse yet, because of all the distributions, if I search up the problem I'm having, I'll get some other command to run to try to fix the problem, but it will be stated only in a form that doesn't work on my machine, and there's no clear way to resolve it. I'm constantly getting stuck due to lack of information. It doesn't help how much the console commands rely on abbreviations you just need to be in the know about. It's like trying to run my computer on Cockney Rhyming Slang, because it only makes sense once it's explained.
To see what a command does, you can use the man command. info is another command you can do for more verbose instructions. I imagine though that you probably already know at least the man command.

As I keep saying, MX Linux is the way if you want a true replacement for older versions of Windows
You shouldn't ever have to fiddle with the command line with MX because they have soooo many natively built system management tools just like the Control Panel in the Windows of old.
 

Signa

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Nope. I didn't know either of those. See, that's why I compared it to Cockney Slang. So many things are written to be words that mean other things, Bin folders, Sudo commands, man instead of manual. The list goes on with things that make little sense to me because I haven't dealt with any of it.
 

Arnox

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Nope. I didn't know either of those. See, that's why I compared it to Cockney Slang. So many things are written to be words that mean other things, Bin folders, Sudo commands, man instead of manual. The list goes on with things that make little sense to me because I haven't dealt with any of it.
Sure, but Windows isn't actually any more intuitive. You just know the systems a lot better. For example, where are a program's files located? Well, it's the folder named Program Files, right? Oh wait, that's for 64-bit programs. Program Files (x86) is also a possible location. Ok, but that's it, right? Well... No. There's also the hidden ProgramData folder. Ok, ok, fine. Now that's it, right? Well... No. There's also AppData in the appropriate user account folder in the UserSettings folder. FINE, but surely that must be all. Well... No. In AppData, there's two different folders named Local and Roaming and program files might be in either or even both of those. Ok! FINE! Surely this madness can't continue from here. Well... It can, actually. Sometimes programs will put user-specific files into the Documents folder which is also in the UserSettings folder.

And now... NOW we're done fina- Oh wait! No, we're not! :) Don't forget the fucking massive Registry which can often contain program configuration data buried in it. So yeah, Windows can easily be way more obtuse than Linux.
 

Signa

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Sure, but Windows isn't actually any more intuitive. You just know the systems a lot better. For example, where are a program's files located? Well, it's the folder named Program Files, right? Oh wait, that's for 64-bit programs. Program Files (x86) is also a possible location. Ok, but that's it, right? Well... No. There's also the hidden ProgramData folder. Ok, ok, fine. Now that's it, right? Well... No. There's also AppData in the appropriate user account folder in the UserSettings folder. FINE, but surely that must be all. Well... No. In AppData, there's two different folders named Local and Roaming and program files might be in either or even both of those. Ok! FINE! Surely this madness can't continue from here. Well... It can, actually. Sometimes programs will put user-specific files into the Documents folder which is also in the UserSettings folder.

And now... NOW we're done fina- Oh wait! No, we're not! :) Don't forget the fucking massive Registry which can often contain program configuration data buried in it. So yeah, Windows can easily be way more obtuse than Linux.
Yeah, those folders are definitely something I grew up with and got used to. They didn't all used to be hidden though. One of the problems I'm running into involves trying to find where the hell programs are stored in the Linux, because every folder doesn't self-describe like "program files." I still don't know where to look because sometimes I find what I'm looking for, and other times it's an empty dead end. There's similar folder structures across several different directories, so if I go to a bin folder, it may not be the same bin folder I'm actually wanting to go to. Then there's the need for capitalization on all your files. Sometimes when I'm using the console, using Tab auto fills the file I'm trying to type, and other times it does something closer to a dir command. I can't find any consistency, and I know the computer demands strict consistency.

Also, a lot of directories are hidden folders in Linux too, so I don't know if that's a fair comparison anyway. I was lost for a long time because I didn't know what I needed was hidden.

As for the registry? I only need to go into it on rare occasions, and usually focused around needing advanced troubleshooting. And it's the sort of things that would fix themselves with a reinstall anyway, so if I was a dumb user, I would still have ways to get around needing it.
 

Arnox

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Yeah, those folders are definitely something I grew up with and got used to. They didn't all used to be hidden though. One of the problems I'm running into involves trying to find where the hell programs are stored in the Linux, because every folder doesn't self-describe like "program files." I still don't know where to look because sometimes I find what I'm looking for, and other times it's an empty dead end. There's similar folder structures across several different directories, so if I go to a bin folder, it may not be the same bin folder I'm actually wanting to go to. Then there's the need for capitalization on all your files. Sometimes when I'm using the console, using Tab auto fills the file I'm trying to type, and other times it does something closer to a dir command. I can't find any consistency, and I know the computer demands strict consistency.

Also, a lot of directories are hidden folders in Linux too, so I don't know if that's a fair comparison anyway. I was lost for a long time because I didn't know what I needed was hidden.

As for the registry? I only need to go into it on rare occasions, and usually focused around needing advanced troubleshooting. And it's the sort of things that would fix themselves with a reinstall anyway, so if I was a dumb user, I would still have ways to get around needing it.
If you press Tab (twice in this case I think, not sure) and there's multiple possible matches, Linux will show a list of all the possible matches for what you're typing in.

Here, you should check out my quick section on the Linux folder structure and guide on the command console at 46:17 for the guide I wrote here. (Transcript also available.) It'll give you everything you need to get started with whatever you want to do.
 

Houseman

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I used Linux for work for several years. Most programming stuff is made for linux, so most everything just works.

Runner up is mac. Windows has the worst compatibility, to the extent that they push "Windows Subsystem for Linux" so that you can have a mini Linux console environment in your Terminal.
 

Signa

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I used Linux for work for several years. Most programming stuff is made for linux, so most everything just works.

Runner up is mac. Windows has the worst compatibility, to the extent that they push "Windows Subsystem for Linux" so that you can have a mini Linux console environment in your Terminal.
Yeah, for better or worse, Windows doesn't let you compile things natively. I've done a little bit of it when I tried building a PC version of Mario 64. As that was, I was OK with it, because it seemed like a feature that should be added to Windows, rather than have it out of the box. If it was built in, I think more developers would leave it to users to do the compiling, and it was a bit complicated for your average user. I had a 1h22m call with my dad the other night just trying to help him download Wiztree so he could clear off his completely full hard drive. It's easy to forget how dumb people can get.
 
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