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Logo Release Candidate 1

Arnox

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This logo I actually designed a long time ago, but I got so much crying about it that it never got used. I'd like to bring it up one more time though before I decide to completely scrap it.

White version:


Black version:
 

Arnox

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What does the (flaming?) bird represent?
It's a tribal phoenix. At the time, in the days of Sanctuary v1.0, we were somewhat more TOTSE focused, so we saw Sanctuary as a rebirth of that. These days though, I still think it's applicable as I think we are bringing back the idea that people should be free to express any idea that they like, and also bringing back forums as a main staple of internet social media, instead of having them solely relegated to niche communities.

And finally, I think it's relevant still



Or at least, I think so...
 

Monoochrom

Disciple
Sanctuary legend
Messages
275
You worry about shit in the wrong order. From what I can tell, we never actually reached any kind of consensus on what this place should be about or if it should keep it's name or whatever and yet here you are concerned about the Logo.

First I'd have to ask why you think something blurry looks good? It doesn't. Otherwise...well, what really can be said? Both are entirely generic.
 

Arnox

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You worry about shit in the wrong order. From what I can tell, we never actually reached any kind of consensus on what this place should be about or if it should keep it's name or whatever and yet here you are concerned about the Logo.

First I'd have to ask why you think something blurry looks good? It doesn't. Otherwise...well, what really can be said? Both are entirely generic.
You're somewhat correct, but we have talked about the future purpose of this site to death. Furthermore, the name, Sanctuary will be kept as I don't see anything wrong with it at all. It's specific enough to characterize the site, but general enough to encompass a wide variety of fields. And it has a nice ring to it. Nah, the subtitles were what was in question. And there's already a poll up right now for those.
 

Monoochrom

Disciple
Sanctuary legend
Messages
275
The Name does have a issue though. It's super generic. That's not a good thing. Think about SEO. Now think about how many things are refered to as a Sanctuary. Now think about all the things in Movies and Video Games that are refered to as Sanctuaries. Now remember that, no matter how many you can think of, there are way more then that. ALL of those things, every last one, will take priority in search engines. With this name, you'll never get this place amoung the Top results even when looking for something as specific as sanctuary. And showing up in the top results is kinda important to actually getting clicks on the site.

Then it is, as you pointed out, also vague enough that we could be pretty much anything.

So, it's not a good Name is what I am saying. Whether one likes it or not, it is both TOO vague and TOO generic.
 

Arnox

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The Name does have a issue though. It's super generic. That's not a good thing. Think about SEO. Now think about how many things are refered to as a Sanctuary. Now think about all the things in Movies and Video Games that are refered to as Sanctuaries. Now remember that, no matter how many you can think of, there are way more then that. ALL of those things, every last one, will take priority in search engines. With this name, you'll never get this place amoung the Top results even when looking for something as specific as sanctuary. And showing up in the top results is kinda important to actually getting clicks on the site.

Then it is, as you pointed out, also vague enough that we could be pretty much anything.

So, it's not a good Name is what I am saying. Whether one likes it or not, it is both TOO vague and TOO generic.
Counter-point: If someone does a search for "sanctuary" on Google, they're not looking for a site like ours. And if they are searching for us specifically, they already know we exist, which defeats at least 95% of the point of SEO anyway. And it gets better. Do a search for "free speech forum", you'll get a bunch of links that have nothing to do with BBS'. Do a search for "free speech bulletin board system" yields a bunch of old news articles and academic papers. Searching for "totse forum" doesn't bring Sanctuary anywhere near the first two pages, but at the same time, I decided a while ago that I didn't want totse veterans anymore due to the potential for bullshit and drama, so if anything, I actually like that. Finally though, doing a search for "sanctuary forum" brings us to the top five search results. Not too shabby there.

My point is that, unless we're already popular, I don't think SEO is gonna mean jack shit for us because of the way Google prioritizes results related to what we are.
 

Houseman

The Actual Hero
Sanctuary legend
Messages
538
To pile on the abuse for a bit, there's been something that's on my mind:

Lay a brick every day, and eventually you'll have a wall. Seems obvious. Just work at something a little bit, regularly, and eventually you'll have something big, good. Perhaps even whole.

But there's also something to be said for focusing on the small, easy to fix details, and ignoring the big problems. Things like logos, and color themes, and catchphrases. Low-hanging fruit that is easily picked, and perhaps makes us feel good when we pick it. But we still have a lot more work to do. The big problems still remain.

Which are we doing here? Are we laying bricks, or choosing the wallpaper?

I've been hearing from you that we just aren't ready yet. When will we be ready? How many tiny tasks must be solved before we are ready? When will the perfect time arise? Will it? Will there still be anyone here when that time comes?

Let's just be careful that we aren't fooling ourselves by accomplishing the little tasks at the expense of the big, intimidating ones. We can have the nicest wallpaper picked out, but unless there's a wall of bricks to hang it on, it doesn't mean much.
 

Monoochrom

Disciple
Sanctuary legend
Messages
275
This is in reference to Arnox' Post. Damn you Houseman! You and your Ninja ways!

True. But as you know, that is obviously not conductive when one is trying to grow a community. It is also not teneable long-term if and when those Users arrive. You also know that I don't think the Forum should stay as it is. I mean, in terms of it's spirit it should, but that's not a Subject Matter, which is part of what keeps us from producing content, most of us just clearly aren't interested in Freedom of Speech and Information as a subject, those are just things we want. In fact, while I won't speak for anyone else there, I'd have to hear specifics before I'd agree that Freedom of Information is a good thing by default.

But like I said, whatever, they fulfill the general function of a Logo. I just think it can be done way better, but that doing that now would be skipping multiple steps that must be fulfilled beforehand to actually make a good and meaningful Logo.
 

Arnox

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OK so, first of all, it's about time we finally had a discussion about this stuff. You guys were so damn silent for a while. On Sanctuary v1.0, I couldn't get people to shut the hell up. And now I can't get you guys to complain enough. lol

To pile on the abuse for a bit, there's been something that's on my mind:

Lay a brick every day, and eventually you'll have a wall. Seems obvious. Just work at something a little bit, regularly, and eventually you'll have something big, good. Perhaps even whole.

But there's also something to be said for focusing on the small, easy to fix details, and ignoring the big problems. Things like logos, and color themes, and catchphrases. Low-hanging fruit that is easily picked, and perhaps makes us feel good when we pick it. But we still have a lot more work to do. The big problems still remain.

Which are we doing here? Are we laying bricks, or choosing the wallpaper?

I've been hearing from you that we just aren't ready yet. When will we be ready? How many tiny tasks must be solved before we are ready? When will the perfect time arise? Will it? Will there still be anyone here when that time comes?

Let's just be careful that we aren't fooling ourselves by accomplishing the little tasks at the expense of the big, intimidating ones. We can have the nicest wallpaper picked out, but unless there's a wall of bricks to hang it on, it doesn't mean much.
Yeah, I do see what you're saying. I've actually been thinking about the same thing myself. For example, I wanted to do another talk video on why exactly the mobile phone was a terrible platform for AAA gaming, and to do another AMA on Reddit, and other things, but then I remembered that the site functions weren't finished, and the logo wasn't discussed, and the Resources tab was still closed and ehhhhhh... >_>

Here's the deal. We've advertised a lot before, but we weren't getting users to sign up really. OK, now we need to improve and try something new. But before we start advertising again, I want to make DAMN SURE this time that when people visit the site, they'll have their minds blown with what we offer. And we pretty much have to, as we're competing against every motherfucker on the internet with a server. We can't afford to be average. We have to be the best, or I fear we'll just be forgotten.

There is a clear end in mind though. Don't worry. The itinerary is, we pick a focus (Done. Most decided on gaming.) We pick a logo. I work on the Resources tab (that'll take no time at all), we decide what content we wish to produce, and then we're off. We're getting so damn close to being totally "feature complete" and officially reaching v3.0.

This is in reference to Arnox' Post. Damn you Houseman! You and your Ninja ways!

True. But as you know, that is obviously not conductive when one is trying to grow a community. It is also not teneable long-term if and when those Users arrive. You also know that I don't think the Forum should stay as it is. I mean, in terms of it's spirit it should, but that's not a Subject Matter, which is part of what keeps us from producing content, most of us just clearly aren't interested in Freedom of Speech and Information as a subject, those are just things we want. In fact, while I won't speak for anyone else there, I'd have to hear specifics before I'd agree that Freedom of Information is a good thing by default.

But like I said, whatever, they fulfill the general function of a Logo. I just think it can be done way better, but that doing that now would be skipping multiple steps that must be fulfilled beforehand to actually make a good and meaningful Logo.
Hey, I agree with you as well. Sanctuary cannot grow on just being a general forum. There needs to be something else there. That's what we're working on.

Totse started by providing a service that wasn't met anywhere else on the 'net at the time. Most other popular sites got their start doing such as well. And that was the main mistake I think we made. We don't really... Offer anything specific enough. Once we get a lot more members, we can start generalizing the forum again, but for now, we need to focus and specialize at least somewhat.

As to freedom of information, yeah, we may drop that subtitle for sure. Or at least that one specifically. We may still offer server space for some rare files that come under legal fire, (like the Halo Online MS23 build) but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.
 

Houseman

The Actual Hero
Sanctuary legend
Messages
538
Okay. As long as there's an end goal that we're working towards, we're laying bricks instead of choosing wallpaper.
 

bluegate

Disciple
Sanctuary legend
Messages
268
All heil the Reichsadler!



If you're going to claim that it's a Phoenix at least don't give it the same pose as some other birds used in a dubious manner in the past.
 

Signa

Libertarian Contrarian
Sanctuary legend
Messages
684
All heil the Reichsadler!



If you're going to claim that it's a Phoenix at least don't give it the same pose as some other birds used in a dubious manner in the past.
I was also going to point out it looked like the German eagle that the Nazi's used. I didn't know it had that name.

Also not good having anything even remotely resembling a Nazi while we will be attracting people like IS. It wouldn't bother me, but bad optics are bad optics.
 

Arnox

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Founder
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Messages
3,715
All heil the Reichsadler!



If you're going to claim that it's a Phoenix at least don't give it the same pose as some other birds used in a dubious manner in the past.
What the fuck is that, a turkey? It's head is all messed up. lol

Anyway, birds of prey have been used in that pose for logos and seals for a very very long time. I mean, c'mon, the presidential seal has an eagle in that same pose. Having said that though, if people don't like the phoenix, they don't like it I guess.
 
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