Will there ever be another D&D ruleset?

[Arnox]

This is something I've been thinking about lately after playing Baldur's Gate. (More on that in another thread later!) I think we now have a ruleset that fits most if not all styles of D&D play. OD&D is the simplest. AD&D is kind of more complex but still (relatively) simple. D&D 3.5 (and by extension, Pathfinder) is the most complex, and D&D 5.0 is a marriage between AD&D and D&D 3.5. In my opinion, 3.5 is actually the best for computer-simulated D&D since the computer can handle all the complexity, whereas 5.0 is the best for actual pen-and-paper games.

So, with all these rulesets... Do we need another one? Is there another type of play that we have yet to support? Personally, I don't think so. 5.0 seems almost perfect for pen-and-paper. 3.5 could use some work perhaps but only to make it even more complex.

 

[PointlessKnowledge]

Yes.

While I will admit that I do not have a firm grasp on the D&D rulesets, I do have a friend who does make his own homebrew tabletop games. He has worked on 2 different games for over 15 years and copious playtesting and thoerycrafting have caused dramatic changes in the games design.

While these games were playable at almost all stages, only in the past few years has he tried to sell these games locally (they have had good reviews from the limited numbers that have been sold). Even though they are both at a point where he can sell them, further refinements are still ongoing. There are always improvements and changes that can be made.

On a different note, D&D is a well made product, but it is still a product to its owners, Hasbro, first and foremost. They are probably already working on the next edition for when they want to make another bunch of money. A new D&D will earn them more money then just selling the old ones, and that is the bottom line for most companies.

 

[Kaleion]

Even if it is unnecessary there are always refinements that can be made and while 5E is relatively simple the large amount of rulebooks give it a larger perceived complexity and as it grows it increases even more scaring off the casual audiences and newcomers, I assume that due to this they will eventually do 6th edition to streamline things and attract new audiences.

 

[Signa]

I started RPGs with Baldurs Gate, and I learned the basics pretty well. So with that in mind, I don't know how you can say 3.5 is the most complex and best for CRPGs, because that is exactly what I'd say for 2.0.

For me, I loved the 3.5/pathfinder set the most because even if it doesn't have a rule for everything, it has enough rules to start a theme so you can figure out your own rules. It allows enough balance between RP and combat. I've heard analysis of other D&D rulesets, and they are geared towards more MMO style play, or are really simple to the point of losing depth in your limitless options.

 

[Arnox]

I started RPGs with Baldurs Gate, and I learned the basics pretty well. So with that in mind, I don't know how you can say 3.5 is the most complex and best for CRPGs, because that is exactly what I'd say for 2.0.

Are you saying 2.0 is best for CRPGs in general or that 2.0 is actually the most complex ruleset?

 

[Elfgore]

Well at the rate 5E gets released it probably won't be until the mid-2025s when 6th Edition comes out. But not really the point.

Honestly, I doubt Wizards cares too much at actual video games anymore besides mobile titles. With Sword Coast Legends being a flop and all. Plus like Kaleion said, 5E is getting sorta-kinda-notreally up there with books. The Mystic is coming and I feel like it might be the breaking point for the more casual audience 5E gathered with its simplicity. (Not like the Mystic is stupid complex, but compared to the rest of the 5E classes it had a lot going on.)

So I see them releasing a new edition to draw people back in with the simplicity of just three books in the coming years.

 

[Arnox]

Well at the rate 5E gets released it probably won't be until the mid-2025s when 6th Edition comes out. But not really the point.

Honestly, I doubt Wizards cares too much at actual video games anymore besides mobile titles. With Sword Coast Legends being a flop and all. Plus like Kaleion said, 5E is getting sorta-kinda-notreally up there with books. The Mystic is coming and I feel like it might be the breaking point for the more casual audience 5E gathered with its simplicity. (Not like the Mystic is stupid complex, but compared to the rest of the 5E classes it had a lot going on.)

So I see them releasing a new edition to draw people back in with the simplicity of just three books in the coming years.

Oh hey! Welcome to our small forums.

Sword Coast Legends was basically NWN-lite. And not in a good way. Maybe it would have been a lot better if they'd just kept it to consoles but in terms of the PC, it was kind of a joke in terms of the features it had. I don't see how lots of supplemental material to choose from for 5E is a bad thing at all though. There's still 3 core books. The Player Handbook, the DM Guide, and the Monster Manual. And you don't even need the DM guide or the Monster Manual if you're a resourceful and half-way intelligent DM.

 

[Elfgore]

Well at the rate 5E gets released it probably won't be until the mid-2025s when 6th Edition comes out. But not really the point.

Honestly, I doubt Wizards cares too much at actual video games anymore besides mobile titles. With Sword Coast Legends being a flop and all. Plus like Kaleion said, 5E is getting sorta-kinda-notreally up there with books. The Mystic is coming and I feel like it might be the breaking point for the more casual audience 5E gathered with its simplicity. (Not like the Mystic is stupid complex, but compared to the rest of the 5E classes it had a lot going on.)

So I see them releasing a new edition to draw people back in with the simplicity of just three books in the coming years.

Oh hey! Welcome to our small forums.

Sword Coast Legends was basically NWN-lite. And not in a good way. Maybe it would have been a lot better if they'd just kept it to consoles but in terms of the PC, it was kind of a joke in terms of the features it had. I don't see how lots of supplemental material to choose from for 5E is a bad thing at all though. There's still 3 core books. The Player Handbook, the DM Guide, and the Monster Manual. And you don't even need the DM guide or the Monster Manual if you're a resourceful and half-way intelligent DM.

Thanks, man! I'm glad I found your link buried in an Escapist thread. I miss this forum feel but I sure as hell don't wanna go back there.

I actually want more supplemental material and think the rate they're releasing it at is the most knee-jerk reaction to complaints of 3/3.5's explosion of books. But this edition is aimed to bring in the more casual players and with more books comes complexity and threat of potential new people being overwhelmed. At some point it'll happen, so Hasbro will have 'em release a new edition.

 

[Arnox]

Oh hey! Welcome to our small forums.

Sword Coast Legends was basically NWN-lite. And not in a good way. Maybe it would have been a lot better if they'd just kept it to consoles but in terms of the PC, it was kind of a joke in terms of the features it had. I don't see how lots of supplemental material to choose from for 5E is a bad thing at all though. There's still 3 core books. The Player Handbook, the DM Guide, and the Monster Manual. And you don't even need the DM guide or the Monster Manual if you're a resourceful and half-way intelligent DM.

Thanks, man! I'm glad I found your link buried in an Escapist thread. I miss this forum feel but I sure as hell don't wanna go back there.

I actually want more supplemental material and think the rate they're releasing it at is the most knee-jerk reaction to complaints of 3/3.5's explosion of books. But this edition is aimed to bring in the more casual players and with more books comes complexity and threat of potential new people being overwhelmed. At some point it'll happen, so Hasbro will have 'em release a new edition.

If you really wanna do us a favor, promote us a bit on the Escapist. We could really use more members. Otherwise, please let me know if there's anything we can add or fix here.

A new edition though, again, I don't really know where they can go that 5E and past editions haven't already tackled. 6E could be redundant and/or go in a really annoying direction like 4E did. Do you think that 5E (just based on the Player's Handbook alone) could improve a lot more?

 

[Elfgore]

Thanks, man! I'm glad I found your link buried in an Escapist thread. I miss this forum feel but I sure as hell don't wanna go back there.

I actually want more supplemental material and think the rate they're releasing it at is the most knee-jerk reaction to complaints of 3/3.5's explosion of books. But this edition is aimed to bring in the more casual players and with more books comes complexity and threat of potential new people being overwhelmed. At some point it'll happen, so Hasbro will have 'em release a new edition.

If you really wanna do us a favor, promote us a bit on the Escapist. We could really use more members. Otherwise, please let me know if there's anything we can add or fix here.

A new edition though, again, I don't really know where they can go that 5E and past editions haven't already tackled. 6E could be redundant and/or go in a really annoying direction like 4E did. Do you think that 5E (just based on the Player's Handbook alone) could improve a lot more?

A lot more? Not really. But enough for them to justify one. I think either Mike Mearls or Jeremy Crawford tweeted a while ago saying they regret putting in race stats into the game, which I agree with 100% is an out-dated and pointless inclusion. All it does is punish players for going against racial stereotypes. My

They were so close to making every class pretty much down to subclass on par with others, though some are way too focused on a single pillar of play. Then they botched the Beastmaster Ranger and to a lesser extent the Ranger class as a whole. They fixed this (maybe a little to well to the point revised ranger is a little OP) in a UA but... They already confirmed 5E will no do what the past three editions have done and include multiple PHBs and also don't plan to ever put it into an actual book. So we're left with this.

 

[Signa]

I started RPGs with Baldurs Gate, and I learned the basics pretty well. So with that in mind, I don't know how you can say 3.5 is the most complex and best for CRPGs, because that is exactly what I'd say for 2.0.

Are you saying 2.0 is best for CRPGs in general or that 2.0 is actually the most complex ruleset?

both, but I do plead ignorance. Baldur's Gate was 2nd ed, and there were plenty of things I'd never want to deal with by hand, like comparing THAC0 scores.

 

[Arnox]

Are you saying 2.0 is best for CRPGs in general or that 2.0 is actually the most complex ruleset?

both, but I do plead ignorance. Baldur's Gate was 2nd ed, and there were plenty of things I'd never want to deal with by hand, like comparing THAC0 scores.

After looking at all the editions again quickly, I still say 3.5 was the most complex. 2 may have definitely been kind of complex but 3.5 allows for so many stat bonuses and powers and feats and dual-classes and etc. It's crazy but if the computer did all that busywork, I think it could be easily the best for that sort of thing.

 

[Signa]

both, but I do plead ignorance. Baldur's Gate was 2nd ed, and there were plenty of things I'd never want to deal with by hand, like comparing THAC0 scores.

After looking at all the editions again quickly, I still say 3.5 was the most complex. 2 may have definitely been kind of complex but 3.5 allows for so many stat bonuses and powers and feats and dual-classes and etc. It's crazy but if the computer did all that busywork, I think it could be easily the best for that sort of thing.

I think we may be looking at completely different things to classify "complexity"

Dual classing was possible in 2nd ed, but there was a very large list of exclusions. You had to be a certain race with a certain class to have the option of taking another specific class. Then leveling both classes meant dividing each earned xp between both classes. Some classes had different xp requirements too. Compared to pathfinder you just gain your next level and then choose the class You want to gain a level in. Much more streamlined and simple for the user.

What you're taking about is character building options. Yes, a computerized version will help you chose your next build, but once you have made your choice you have very simple calculations to use that new feature. You don't need to actively know all the other options the game allows, you only need to know what you chose for yourself.