Some Random Political Ranting

[Arnox]

"We can't let the other side win."

Shut up. I'm so FUCKING sick of this extremist take. (And yes, it is an extremist take. If you have this Sith attitude of, "If you're not with me, you're my enemy," in politics, you flat out have extremist views. That is pretty much the textbook definition of extremism.) The majority of the US people act like a battered and abused housewife. They'll only vote for the party they think is gonna win, get inevitably fucked by them, and they'll vote for that party again and say one of two things.

1. "Oh, they're not that bad. Not as bad as the other side. I have to vote for them. I have no choice. See, I know that the political party I voted has so much good in them. Why can't you see that? Stop bringing my party down."

2. "Oh, that bad stuff didn't actually happen. lol I bet you got that information from THE OTHER side. They're always lying. They want to kill us/kill America. Why can't you see that? Stop bringing my party down."

 

[Vendor-Lazarus]

The only way to stop some people from doing something you don't want, is to fight them. Not necessarily physically, as there might still be 2 boxes left..

"Silent is assent...". "First they came for...". "All it takes for evil to win...". Have you heard these?

I agree with not having a black and white outlook though, but when push comes to shove, you need to know where you stand. While also being aware of the shifting of the overton window, and the slippery slope (which is rarely a fallacy).

I'll also agree that when it's gray vs gray, professing to stand with this or that gray alone is rarely accomplishing any goals. Sadly, people seem to gravitate towards dualism, whatever the political landscape is. Be it kings and peasants, nobles and republicans, dictators and revolutionaries, rich and workers, or left and right-wing. That doesn't mean some groupings or organizations aren't totally evil. They are. Rarely if ever do the opposite occur, when an entity is entirely good. Nuance shouldn't be lost, but neither should one stop weighing the scales. Preferably without considerations towards a risk-averse strategy.

 

[Signa]

Ok, I guess I'm a proud extremist then. The thing is, I see it as a battle between people that want to be left alone and leave others alone in the process, vs people that want to meddle in everything and control what every person does at all times. The first group let the second group alone and the second group took the opportunity to seize control of basically everything they could until group 1 was under their thumb.

The first group is now starting to realize that "live and let live" doesn't work when there's people that disagree, and so you will hear messages such as "We can't let the other side win" from them now. They literally can't let them win, because they will be eradicated if they do. Group 2 doesn't have to worry about losing, because they can always come back and apply pressure later once Group 1 feels they can go back to living and letting live. Once they win, it's checkmate and they only have to hold onto the reigns of power and control to get what they want.

 

[Arnox]

Ok, I guess I'm a proud extremist then. The thing is, I see it as a battle between people that want to be left alone and leave others alone in the process, vs people that want to meddle in everything and control what every person does at all times. The first group let the second group alone and the second group took the opportunity to seize control of basically everything they could until group 1 was under their thumb.

The first group is now starting to realize that "live and let live" doesn't work when there's people that disagree, and so you will hear messages such as "We can't let the other side win" from them now. They literally can't let them win, because they will be eradicated if they do. Group 2 doesn't have to worry about losing, because they can always come back and apply pressure later once Group 1 feels they can go back to living and letting live. Once they win, it's checkmate and they only have to hold onto the reigns of power and control to get what they want.

There are major outside factors here as well though that you are not considering. For one, due to declining living standards, rising prices on the lower and middle class, and the decline of the family unit, there are now a LOT more people than there were that are both easier to push into radical actions and easier to use lies to convince them. There's also simply just a lot of pent up anger in general. People angry at their non-existent or abusive parents, angry at their employers, angry at the shitty way they need to apply for jobs, angry at all the debt they have to accrue just to go to school, angry at the completely ridiculous medical costs, of which over 50% of are probably going to "administrative costs"... And when people get this angry, they're going to look for a target. And, oh look, these two political parties just happen to offer one! "It's that OTHER political party. THEY'RE trying to destroy everything, see?"

Under normal conditions (which we are definitely not in), radicalization isn't really a factor. It's a numbers game. If, say, over 90% of people in the country are living comfortably, then they're generally not going to be vulnerable to radicalization. But as times worsen, a population will begin to want to resort to violence and more radical means of change. But as Roger Zelazny would say, "Personal feelings don't make for good politics, legal decisions, or business deals."

 

[Houseman]

Ok, I guess I'm a proud extremist then. The thing is, I see it as a battle between people that want to be left alone and leave others alone in the process, vs people that want to meddle in everything and control what every person does at all times. The first group let the second group alone and the second group took the opportunity to seize control of basically everything they could until group 1 was under their thumb.

The first group is now starting to realize that "live and let live" doesn't work when there's people that disagree, and so you will hear messages such as "We can't let the other side win" from them now. They literally can't let them win, because they will be eradicated if they do. Group 2 doesn't have to worry about losing, because they can always come back and apply pressure later once Group 1 feels they can go back to living and letting live. Once they win, it's checkmate and they only have to hold onto the reigns of power and control to get what they want.

Jehovah's Witnesses are politically neutral, so they don't vote. This could lead to us being in unfavorable conditions if laws were passed against us, laws that they could have stopped if we had voted according to our interests (such as self-preservation).

We do, however, fight in court. We have won landmark, precedent-establishing cases regarding freedom of speech. Of course, that only works when there is a law that we can use as a defense.

So if we do nothing, politically, and let others extinguish us, that's fine. We'll carry on our activities in secret and risk jail, or we'll move elsewhere. We have it as a prophecy that the governments of the world will turn against religion anyway, and then the end will come.

But for others who don't have such a hope, I can understand why they'd take it upon themselves to defend themselves, politically or otherwise.

 

[Signa]

There are major outside factors here as well though that you are not considering. al means of change. But as Roger Zelazny would say, "Personal feelings don't make for good politics, legal decisions, or business deals."

Jehovah's Witnesses are politically neutral, so they don't vote.

Good replies, both of you. I don't think I have much to add, but I didn't want them to go unacknowledged either.

 

[Arnox]

Good replies, both of you. I don't think I have much to add, but I didn't want them to go unacknowledged either.

<3

 

[Islander]

Ok, I guess I'm a proud extremist then. The thing is, I see it as a battle between people that want to be left alone and leave others alone in the process, vs people that want to meddle in everything and control what every person does at all times. The first group let the second group alone and the second group took the opportunity to seize control of basically everything they could until group 1 was under their thumb.

The first group is now starting to realize that "live and let live" doesn't work when there's people that disagree, and so you will hear messages such as "We can't let the other side win" from them now. They literally can't let them win, because they will be eradicated if they do. Group 2 doesn't have to worry about losing, because they can always come back and apply pressure later once Group 1 feels they can go back to living and letting live. Once they win, it's checkmate and they only have to hold onto the reigns of power and control to get what they want.

This, so fucking much. There was a time when I actually wanted to maintain a neutral political stance; 2020 destroyed that naive notion. I still identify as a moderate, but the majority of my antipathy as of late has been aimed at the Left, which has been treating anyone not 100% behind them as their enemy. And they have sought to stick their dicks in everything people care about, from our entertainment to our education to our basic necessities for life. I and many, many others are fucking sick of the Left and want to see them crushed so we don't have to spend every damn day feeling like we're fighting a war we didn't ask for. We want to live our lives in peace and quiet, and as long as someone is trying to take that away from us, we can't do that.

I suspect part of the reason the Right has been so lax is because they know that if enough moderates get pissed, they'll rise up against the Left of their own accord, and what do you know, they have. The moderates have been forced to pick a side, and most of us picked the one that hasn't been forming radical movements and forcing shit we don't care about down our throats. The Right was defeated years ago and has nowhere near the influence it did in the 1900s; now it's the Left's turn.

 

[Arnox]

The moderates have been forced to pick a side

Still neutral here.

Also, the right =/= Republican.

 

[Islander]

Still neutral here.

Also, the right =/= Republican.

But is it neutral with a direction? Is it neutral with a plan? I'm technically neutral myself, I just know which side is a more direct threat to my livelihood right now. I know which party wants to take my money, give it to people who would try to harm me, then take away my rights and ability to defend myself from those people. Long as that party is the Left, I will oppose the Left most strongly. And if the Right ever becomes that threat, I will oppose them just as strongly. I don't care what party the threat comes from; I want it neutralized as quickly and efficiently as possible.

Technically true, but other right groups are so minimal that the Republicans are effectively the Right just as the Democrats are effectively the Left. My point stands. The Right just better learn from this: they start overstepping their boundaries, we will rise up against them just as quickly and fiercely. The majority of true Americans, as in people who love the country and want to see it prosper, are moderates who will do everything they can to keep the Left and the Right in check. That's what our Constitution and Bill of Rights were designed to do in the first place.

The government serves the People, the People do not serve the government. It is up to the People to remind the government of that.

 

[Arnox]

But is it neutral with a direction? Is it neutral with a plan?

It sure is! :) Though I already explained some of it in the other thread. We at very least need third-parties to be viable again or, more ideally, a complete system-wide overhaul.

Long as that party is the Left, I will oppose the Left most strongly. And if the Right ever becomes that threat, I will oppose them just as strongly.

Nobody on the repub or demo side is your friend. They are all seeking more power and more money to do nothing productive. Or worse.

but other right groups are so minimal that the Republicans are effectively the Right just as the Democrats are effectively the Left.

Majority or minority sway does not automatically make Republicans right-leaning. Republicans are Republican-leaning, which is to say, corrupt-leaning.

 

[Islander]

It sure is! :) Though I already explained some of it in the other thread. We at very least need third-parties to be viable again or, more ideally, a complete system-wide overhaul.

Third parties just become the new extremes. Get rid of the Democrats and Republicans, other parties will become the new dominant Left and Right. We need a partyless system, where people have to research what their leaders stand for and don't just vote according to party. We also need a system that excludes career politicians. Governance needs to be on an as-needed basis like jury duty. And if sheeple are gonna keep politicians in power, then we need to find a way to excise them from society too. The only society that can survive is one where the people are strong, smart, free-willed, and respectful of each other's boundaries.

Nobody on the repub or demo side is your friend. They are all seeking more power and more money to do nothing productive. Or worse.

I never said Republicans were my friends. And I expect that if the Left ever gets extinguished that the Right will step in to fill the void. I've even said before that they're two wings of the same demon. But right now, the Left, including the Democrats, are the bigger threat to the country, so keeping them in check is my main focus on the political front. I want the illegals out, I want American citizens to be properly educated on finances, I want the US dollar to be based as a currency again, I want the media to be truly free with no political censorship and no woke agendas being pushed, and I want real justice being served in this country, with criminals getting the punishments they deserve, including politicians (regardless of party).

Majority or minority sway does not automatically make Republicans right-leaning. Republicans are Republican-leaning, which is to say, corrupt-leaning.

RINOs are a thing. And we (as in my family and I) hate them just as much as the Democrats.

So how would you suggest convincing the masses to abandon Democrats and Republicans both? And what better alternative would you propose?

 

[Arnox]

Third parties just become the new extremes. Get rid of the Democrats and Republicans, other parties will become the new dominant Left and Right.

Third parties aren't really the full end-goal. Just a stepping stone on the path to start de-radicalizing the populous.

We need a partyless system, where people have to research what their leaders stand for and don't just vote according to party

Ideally, yes, absolutely. But that requires the voting system to be fixed.

We also need a system that excludes career politicians.

Start adding term limits to congress.

Why they never had them to begin with is a damn mystery to me, though in fairness, the founding fathers never once pretended the Constitution was a perfect piece of legislation. In fact, they made it under the assumption that it would come under review regularly. Except we never did that. Probably because the system was so much better than the systems of before that people didn't really want to touch it for a long while. But the cracks are now definitely showing and the time has come to audit it as we should have done a long while ago.

Governance needs to be on an as-needed basis like jury duty.

Ehhhh... Maybe? I don't know. Seems too chaotic and not worth the extra hassle to me. Still definitely think we should go for Heinlein's service-before-franchise system.

And if sheeple are gonna keep politicians in power

How would they do that?

I want American citizens to be properly educated on finances

Requires the education system to be not shit.

I want the US dollar to be based as a currency again

That shouldn't actually be the focus. The USD became a standard a long while ago only because the US economy was so damn strong. If I recall correctly anyway. Straighten out the economy and the dollar should start rising in value again and look a lot more attractive as a standard.

I want the media to be truly free with no political censorship and no woke agendas being pushed

Do you have examples of the Democratic party actively censoring something? (Besides the bullshit censorship bills within the Blacklist I mean.)

RINOs are a thing.

So why doesn't the Republican party kick them out?

So how would you suggest convincing the masses to abandon Democrats and Republicans both?

Unless Sanctuary REALLY takes off, I'm under no illusions that I or even all of us currently on the site at this time will be able to convince the masses to stop their present course, though I'm still definitely going to try and do my part instead of being a part of the problem. Assuming that fails, I have an embrace-destruction attitude. I have since accepted that things will, sooner or later, end very very badly with us as a country. I've made peace with that and accepted that that bloody outcome may very well be the only thing that will get the US to wake the FUCK up, unite, and start repairing things in earnest.

It also helps for me, personally and spiritually speaking, that I'm not super attached to this world anymore anyway.

"Unlike most people, whether we live or die isn't a big deal for us. Besides, if you cling to life, you live in fear of death. And that fear will cloud your judgement. But once you've managed to free yourself of that, you can go on fighting to the end of the world."
- Revy (Black Lagoon)