Possible Cheating in Quake 3 Arena Speedrun

[Arnox]

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7oLXDxHGcY)

The first thing that tipped me off to this was that this dude's got a REALLY damn good pokerface as if he's casually watching a movie. This boy is doing literal half-second precision shots for a world-record speedrun, and he's not even reacting in the slightest. Ok. Fine. Maybe he's just that fucking good. So let's move on to the problematic parts.

@14:00 - He's firing some grenades to the second level. All good. But then he does a quick 180 WHILE pulling out the Railgun and almost immediately shoots a bot that just came onto the ledge. wut?

@21:31 - Fires some rockets for area denial. All good. But then drops down and tracks a bot that, ONCE AGAIN, just came around the corner. No audio cues. I'd also like to add that the aiming is REALLY good here too. Almost unbelievably so, but not quite.

@25:32 - Almost instantly fires right on target as he's just coming around the corner. Now it could be a prediction shot, but it's still very suspicious.

@25:44 - Makes a snap shot. Not actually suspicious at all by itself. People make them all the time, but the fact that his crosshair stopped on target together with the fact that he fires instantly is suspicious. It doesn't match typical human aiming patterns where a "swipe" over a target is done instead of a snap-to, and yes, when it comes to a swipe, the shot is also fired immediately or almost immediately after the crosshair hits the target, but after the shot, the swiping movement should usually continue past the target, even if just a little bit.

@25:54 - Quickly turns right on target. No error in aiming whatsoever (until he gets shot of course).

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Again, if someone could tell me if I'm wrong here, I'd appreciate it. I don't like hurling accusations at people, but if I see some bullshit, I'm gonna call it out.

 

[Battousai]

By the way he's playing it feels like I'm watching a TAS speedrun lol, but he really might be that good. Pinned comment asks him how long he has played basically and the guy answers early 2000's when he was 3-6 years old and then gives a full history of his gaming.

 

[Drathnoxis]

The first thing that tipped me off to this was that this dude's got a REALLY damn good pokerface as if he's casually watching a movie. This boy is doing literal half-second precision shots for a world-record speedrun, and he's not even reacting in the slightest. Ok. Fine. Maybe he's just that fucking good. So let's move on to the problematic parts.

Have you seen speedrunners before? I've seen them having casual conversations with the chat about random garbage while doing WR times. These people have practiced the games they run to an extent that they could pretty much play them in their sleep.

Maybe the bots always come around the corner at that time if he plays a certain way. A lot of speed running comes down to manipulating AI and events to happen in a certain way that a casual player wouldn't even think was possible.

 

[Arnox]

I've seen them having casual conversations with the chat about random garbage while doing WR times.

Yeah, and I've also seen a ton of cheaters too. XD You just never know.

 

[drongo]

14:00 - There was an audio cue. He knew they were there so they pre-emptively pull the RG and corrected once they actually saw them.

21:31 - Could have easily just had a read on the spawns. The aim wasn't insane, the bot was just running straight and when they jumped off the ledge they preaimed at the most likely angle.

25:32 - They just reacted to them and flicked. I counted a little under 20 frames so there was easily enough time to react to it, and I'm looking through a shitty 720p60 video and not a 240hz monitor. You bring up aim a few times, here he clearly overshoots and only a few pellets land, as you'd expect from natural aim.

25:44 - He was mid swap and just flicked and held down his mouse button, firing instantly. He already knew they were there from audio. It's a lot easier to stop vertical movement than horizontal across the board.

25:54 - Audio cue is there so where else would they be? Just preaim there and hold M1, he got lucky and the bot jumped meaning he didn't have to aim too hard because the bot's movement was locked by knockback.

You're not seeing bullshit, you're just not good enough to be in the right mentality to read what he's doing.

 

[Arnox]

14:00 - There was an audio cue. He knew they were there so they pre-emptively pull the RG and corrected once they actually saw them.

21:31 - Could have easily just had a read on the spawns. The aim wasn't insane, the bot was just running straight and when they jumped off the ledge they preaimed at the most likely angle.

25:32 - They just reacted to them and flicked. I counted a little under 20 frames so there was easily enough time to react to it, and I'm looking through a shitty 720p60 video and not a 240hz monitor. You bring up aim a few times, here he clearly overshoots and only a few pellets land, as you'd expect from natural aim.

25:44 - He was mid swap and just flicked and held down his mouse button, firing instantly. He already knew they were there from audio. It's a lot easier to stop vertical movement than horizontal across the board.

25:54 - Audio cue is there so where else would they be? Just preaim there and hold M1, he got lucky and the bot jumped meaning he didn't have to aim too hard because the bot's movement was locked by knockback.

You're not seeing bullshit, you're just not good enough to be in the right mentality to read what he's doing.

Thank you for explaining.

Yeah, I still have a few issues with these arguments. Also keep in mind that aimbots have improved a LOT over the years, and the better ones replicate natural aiming (or at least, as good as an aimbot can anyway), but overall, you make some good points.

 

[Phiwise_]

I didn't see anything too unusual. Working the spawns is a part of the game, and quake trains a careful, precise aim that can look strange if you're used to other shooters.

As for his expression, that's how Raisy pretty much always is: https://youtu.be/_hLt8KjGTO4

 

[Arnox]

I didn't see anything too unusual. Working the spawns is a part of the game, and quake trains a careful, precise aim that can look strange if you're used to other shooters.

As for his expression, that's how Raisy pretty much always is: https://youtu.be/_hLt8KjGTO4

Wow, Quake Champions is still doing tournaments? I thought they let that game die.

 

[Battousai]

Wow, Quake Champions is still doing tournaments? I thought they let that game die.

For all intents and purposes its a dead game to the regular players, I think the average player count is close to 400 people daily. I think it's just because the Quake Pro League uses Quake Champions exclusively for hosting its championships, I mean it is organized by Bethesda, of course they are gonna use their latest Quake game.

 

[Arnox]

After having played some Quake 3 recently... I gotta rescind a lot of my arguments here as I found myself doing a LOT of the same crap here including snap-to aiming. But not all of them. More specifically, I still think the first issue at 14:00 is some weird shit.