• For our 10th anniversary on May 9th, 2024, we will be giving out 15 GB of free, off-shore, DMCA-resistant file storage per user, and very possibly, public video hosting! For more details, check a look at our roadmap here.

    Welcome to the edge of the civilized internet! All our official content can be found here. If you have any questions, try our FAQ here or see our video on why this site exists at all!

Possibility: Public File Hosting/Video Streaming Capabilities

Arnox

Master
Staff member
Founder
Messages
5,323
To be clear, I mean 5 to 10 GB of space allocated per user. (Forum attachments would continue to run on the same rules as before and wouldn't affect your user quota.) But yes, I've already discussed these plans with others in the background, but I'm now officially revealing this. I think it's time we stopped beating around the fucking bush in general. I don't think we're gonna get a steady stream of new users here until we start offering something that nobody else is offering. The forum just doesn't seem to be enough. I've talked to a whole lot of people who have greatly approved of this site, but when it comes time to join, to get asses in seats, they find some reason to flake out. We NEED a killer feature, which means I'm going to have to start digging FAR more into my piggy bank to fund this.

Anyway. The uploading rules would tentatively (except for the first part) be as follows:

- All uploads fall under the usual 7 Deadly Sins rules of Sanctuary. Non-negotiable. You will get instabanned if we find anything in your uploads that violates the 7 Deadly Sins of Sanctuary and the offending content will be hard deleted.
- Uploading of copyrighted material is not allowed UNLESS the material was copyrighted 20 years ago to the day or more.
- Further, if a copyrighted item is no longer for sale, it can also be uploaded, even if the copyright date is within 20 years to the day.
- If a copyrighted item is still for sale and the copyright is within 20 years to the day, but the price for the item is way too expensive for what it is, or has a mandatory subscription added onto it that didn't exist before, seek admin approval first before uploading. We'll (probably) allow it.
- Items currently under NDA may be allowed as well but also seek admin approval for these things first. There must be a good reason for the upload of these items. We won't take them just because they're neat.

Beyond the rules, the biggest issue I see with this model by far is how we're going to scale. It's one thing to give 5 to 10 GB of storage to about 100 users, but it's quite another to give it to 300. 500. 1,000. We may have to implement a limited invite system for the free public file hosting due to the limited resources that will be available to us. Regardless though, I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts and ideas on this.
 

Drathnoxis

Devotee
Messages
231
And this is going to beat out Google Drive/Youtube, how?

I think if you aren't allowing people to upload illegal porn you aren't really offering something that nobody else is offering.
 
Messages
36
Y'all ever heard of filecoin?



I think Lanny's ISS codebase tackles this problem in an interesting way, the site does not allow you to upload anything and you can turn off js and embedding, it can be run off a potato and even the user avatars are only 253kb size limit 75x75

I have a running gag where any forum without avatar limits I try to break their thing and upload an entire feature length film into a 50x50 1fps gif thats like 50mb. One day they will learn the error of their ways, but yeah I think an internet forum should probably run that way at least so they aren't legally responsible for any content posted there as it's not on their server directly.
 

Drathnoxis

Devotee
Messages
231
Dude, have you BEEN to YouTube lately?

That one's harder, but Google Drive also gets stingy about what they host, strictly obeys DMCA, and deletes files that are sitting around too long, plus they limit the download amount. And their support? Pretty much non-existent.
And you are going to manage money pit concepts like these better than a billion dollar company? For free? Because nobody is going to come here if they have to pay. I don't think "we're a little bit more lenient than Google" is really going to cause the hordes to start banging down our doors to join up.

Sorry I'm always saying this, but don't waste your money because it isn't going to work.
 
Messages
36
Personally I think there are enough options out there at this point for anything involving data storage and sharing of content, decentralized technology will always outpace globalist controlled corporate solutions like AWS and Google, eventually.

I no longer use Imgur because they DCMA'd a totally legal non copyright pictures I put on there, which means they just rubber stamp any requests, even fake bullshit, fuck them.

I only upload to sites if I have no other option. I don't like forums where you can't see the picture and need to download it to view it.
I am a big fan of these types of sites, the admins are cool
 

Arnox

Master
Staff member
Founder
Messages
5,323
Y'all ever heard of filecoin?

I think Lanny's ISS codebase tackles this problem in an interesting way, the site does not allow you to upload anything and you can turn off js and embedding, it can be run off a potato and even the user avatars are only 253kb size limit 75x75

I have a running gag where any forum without avatar limits I try to break their thing and upload an entire feature length film into a 50x50 1fps gif thats like 50mb. One day they will learn the error of their ways, but yeah I think an internet forum should probably run that way at least so they aren't legally responsible for any content posted there as it's not on their server directly.
Could you explain more?

Because nobody is going to come here if they have to pay.
You wouldn't have to pay, or at least not for the first 5-10 GB anyway. But as I said, scaling's going to be a big problem we'll have to overcome. And no, we do actually have significant advantages over Google Drive. Mainly, reliability and file permanence.
 

Houseman

Zealot
Sanctuary legend
Messages
1,076
How are you going to check everything that's uploaded to make sure it complies with the rules? Are you going to allow encrypted .zip files that need a password to be opened?

What country will these files be hosted in, and what are their laws regarding content?
 
Messages
36
Could you explain more?
It's basically limewire but if you had to buy TOKENS to download the files, and the TOKENS are actually the same code running the "limewire" or torrent program itself, off everyones computer like a distributed computing. They have data centers in the arctic, lol


Filecoin is a peer-to-peer network that stores files, with built-in economic incentives and cryptography to ensure files are stored reliably over time. In Filecoin, users pay to store their files on storage providers. Storage providers are computers responsible for storing files and proving they have stored them correctly over time. Anyone who wants to store their files or get paid for storing other usersโ€™ files can join Filecoin. Available storage, and the price of that storage, are not controlled by any single company. Instead, Filecoin facilitates open markets for storing and retrieving files that anyone can participate in.

Filecoin is built on top of the same software powering IPFS protocol, which is a peer-to-peer distributed storage network that leverages content addressing to allow permanent references to the data, and avoids relying on specific devices or cloud servers for addressing the content. Filecoin is different from IPFS because it has an incentive layer on top to incentivize contents to be reliably stored and accessed.
I was pressing buttons on their website to try and find pictures of their global node map but ended up on this. Whoa


 

Battousai

Brother Sharp
Sanctuary legend
Sanctuary contributor
Messages
563
Occupation
Cookmaster supreme
To be clear, I mean 5 to 10 GB of space allocated per user. (Forum attachments would continue to run on the same rules as before and wouldn't affect your user quota.) But yes, I've already discussed these plans with others in the background, but I'm now officially revealing this. I think it's time we stopped beating around the fucking bush in general. I don't think we're gonna get a steady stream of new users here until we start offering something that nobody else is offering. The forum just doesn't seem to be enough. I've talked to a whole lot of people who have greatly approved of this site, but when it comes time to join, to get asses in seats, they find some reason to flake out. We NEED a killer feature, which means I'm going to have to start digging FAR more into my piggy bank to fund this.

Anyway. The uploading rules would tentatively (except for the first part) be as follows:

- All uploads fall under the usual 7 Deadly Sins rules of Sanctuary. Non-negotiable. You will get instabanned if we find anything in your uploads that violates the 7 Deadly Sins of Sanctuary and the offending content will be hard deleted.
- Uploading of copyrighted material is not allowed UNLESS the material was copyrighted 20 years ago to the day or more.
- Further, if a copyrighted item is no longer for sale, it can also be uploaded, even if the copyright date is within 20 years to the day.
- If a copyrighted item is still for sale and the copyright is within 20 years to the day, but the price for the item is way too expensive for what it is, or has a mandatory subscription added onto it that didn't exist before, seek admin approval first before uploading. We'll (probably) allow it.
- Items currently under NDA may be allowed as well but also seek admin approval for these things first. There must be a good reason for the upload of these items. We won't take them just because they're neat.

Beyond the rules, the biggest issue I see with this model by far is how we're going to scale. It's one thing to give 5 to 10 GB of storage to about 100 users, but it's quite another to give it to 300. 500. 1,000. We may have to implement a limited invite system for the free public file hosting due to the limited resources that will be available to us. Regardless though, I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts and ideas on this.
Dude I did tell you last time when we talked about this that with a limit like that you are better off offering storage for videos in the short format if you ever went along with it, like the Youtube shorts or TikToks. We did discuss that Sanctuary on its own cannot compete with other video hosting sites in terms of bandwidth and storage, and people upload massive videos to sites like Youtube. Following the TOS that you put for people to use the site to store their videos is not really a problem, your problem is that no one is gonna want to use this for a lack of unlimited space that sites like YT already offer for free and then the paid option you offer them is not gonna be much of an upgrade either.

Unless you can offer something on par with those other video hosting sites this is a waste of an investment, you would probably only attract the wrong kind of crowd to upload here given the type of freedom you offer but I doubt even those would stay long after they likely start breaking the terms of service.
 

Vendor-Lazarus

Arch Disciple
Sanctuary legend
Messages
951
I still think hosting banned and/or popular mods to undermine schemeDRM's attempt at yet another monopoly situation is the way to go. Games no longer for sale would fit in with that as well.
 

Drathnoxis

Devotee
Messages
231
Mainly, reliability and file permanence.
Theoretical reliability and file permanence. Reliability that as of yet only exists inside your head and permanence that, even if you don't ever change your mind, only remains until you die or simply cannot afford it any longer (my bets on this one).

And on top of that, I'm still not clear how file hosting translates into forum users.
 

Arnox

Master
Staff member
Founder
Messages
5,323
Currently doing a survey on Reddit about this. Found one person already who is actually very interested in this. Will update later.
 
Messages
36
Decentralized storage networks are getting increasingly popular over mainstream centralized providers, such as Amazon Web Services, Google Cloud and Microsoft Azure. The primary reason for the shift is the low cost of operations and security.

Some notable decentralized storage platforms are Filecoin, Sia, BitTorrent and Storj. Among these platforms, Storj has developed a new scalable solution called Storj Next, promising more scalable decentralized solutions for Web2 and Web3 firms. With a focus on community building, the latest upgrade introduces a new economic model that enables broader participation in the Storj ecosystem.

Storj is a decentralized system for digital file storage that utilizes unused storage on computers worldwide with the help of encryption and blockchain. It breaks the uploaded data into smaller fractions and distributes it across the network so that no single company or organization can access all uploaded data.
you don't need anything to play this game, I have tested it on some pretty old hardware, it's one of the earlier concepts of this and I don't fully understand how the game is able to play without requiring your browser to load resources from a saved server, it's all pretty hodgepodge experimental technology that obviously can't compete with big tech big data, but like I said I have been testing this on everything and pouring over the byte code and I am amazed at this technology
 

Arnox

Master
Staff member
Founder
Messages
5,323
you don't need anything to play this game, I have tested it on some pretty old hardware, it's one of the earlier concepts of this and I don't fully understand how the game is able to play without requiring your browser to load resources from a saved server, it's all pretty hodgepodge experimental technology that obviously can't compete with big tech big data, but like I said I have been testing this on everything and pouring over the byte code and I am amazed at this technology
It's a fine goal to be sure. I just don't know how well it would integrate with our frontend solution, XenForo. And it has to because XF is invaluable to us in a number of ways. Now, I can specify XF to use a separate server for all uploads and attachments, but anything more than that is questionable.
 

Free-Thinker7x

I am interested in this and other ideas you or others may have for the site. I'm interested in supporting this site through that or by donations.
I appreciate this site for hosting the rainbow flag mod that was banned - that is how I found it - and this site may be needed soon more than ever, if this kind of censoring of freedom keeps happening.
 

Arnox

Master
Staff member
Founder
Messages
5,323
I am interested in this and other ideas you or others may have for the site. I'm interested in supporting this site through that or by donations.
I appreciate this site for hosting the rainbow flag mod that was banned - that is how I found it - and this site may be needed soon more than ever, if this kind of censoring of freedom keeps happening.
Thank you for being with us! <3 You don't have to donate if you don't want to. I just want people to, you know, BE here is all. To enjoy the site that I made, as I've stated many times before. Hopefully I won't ever have to ask for donations. I'll do everything I can to self-fund this.

I think this site is needed more than ever right now. I've gone over in the past how we're now pretty much the only ones left. There are a few exceptions still, but by and large, none of them are viable in their own ways. Every other site has their own special snowflake rules. Terrible limitations. Privacy intrusions. Tyranny of the Majority. Shareholder-driven decisions. Or maybe it's as simple as the site just having some dumbass power-tripping admin. Take your pick.

Every time I come here, I'm constantly reminded of just how much crap I and others who use Sanctuary DON'T have to deal with. Sanctuary really was a good name for this site in my arrogant opinion, and I hope that it will be a sanctuary for you too.
 
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