Baldur's Gate 3 and Ken Levine

[Arnox]

Just now in chat, @Vendor-Lazarus posted this video on Baldur's Gate 3's character creator and how the game was just too "woke" and I wanted to talk about this.

Now, I really don't mean to harass Vendor about this, but I do think this is an interesting enough and important subject to talk about in thread form. I'll just copypaste what I said in chat.

This is some conservative justice warrior stuff to be honest. I will agree, adjustable penises is a ridiculous thing to add in a D&D game (it fit the neo-consumerism in Cyberpunk but it doesn't jive with the medieval fantasy of Baldur's Gate) but lambasting a game because the character creator is a little lacking is kinda silly. I mean, do we remember NWN where you only had the choice of Bad Polygonal Model 1 and Bad Polygonal Model 2? Let's not trash the one incredibly good thing we got this year because of... This.

Also,

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwsjALh2vYA)

Now, there IS woke social justice warrior stuff in the industry. No doubt about it. And it's led us to some pretty awful games and some pretty awful business decisions, but guys, we really gotta pick our fights here. This is just something that isn't worth the heat at all. We got WAY bigger fish to fry. BG3 is an incredibly good game. One of the very, VERY few we've actually gotten recently out of the """AAA""" industry. Let's not ruin this. Let's not overthink this. Because we CAN kill this industry with cynicism if we let this small stuff get to us. Scorched earth is rarely ever a good policy.

 

[Battousai]

Stop obsessing about the philosophical implications of digital cock selection on elves and dwarves and fucking play the game, it is very good and has extremely way more depth to it outside of those character creator shenanigans.

 

[Vendor-Lazarus]

This is why the woke identity politics is continuing. People support it and excuse it when it comes to something they have been hyped up to use. It's the latest greatest shiniest after all. It's amazing how people put on blinders when they fanboy. Like with using Firefox despite how shady, woke, and privacy invasive they are (not singling out or harassing you here Arnox..).

Enjoy your 4 body types, independent of the 3 gender identities and all the woke dialogue, minority-pushing characters (now with skin-diseases!) and inclusive romance options you can stand. After all, playing a game is more important.

 

[Arnox]

This is why the woke identity politics is continuing. People support it and excuse it when it comes to something they have been hyped up to use. It's the latest greatest shiniest after all. It's amazing how people put on blinders when they fanboy. Like with using Firefox despite how shady, woke, and privacy invasive they are (not singling out or harassing you here Arnox..).

Enjoy your 4 body types, independent of the 3 gender identities and all the woke dialogue, minority-pushing characters (now with skin-diseases!) and inclusive romance options you can stand. After all, playing a game is more important.

Before I continue any further, what is "woke" to you? Where exactly would you draw the line?

 

[Vendor-Lazarus]

Before I continue any further, what is "woke" to you? Where exactly would you draw the line?

Woke is the left-wing version of identity politics and everything that comes with it. Putting their "identity" first and foremost, above anything else. Bringing it up in unrelated things and using obscure self-references. Denying or obfuscating facts that goes against their "identity" narrative. In-group circle-jerking and removing "offending" stuff. Re-writing history and pushing propaganda.

 

[Arnox]

Woke is the left-wing version of identity politics and everything that comes with it. Putting their "identity" first and foremost, above anything else. Bringing it up in unrelated things and using obscure self-references. Denying or obfuscating facts that goes against their "identity" narrative. In-group circle-jerking and removing "offending" stuff. Re-writing history and pushing propaganda.

Alright, those are mostly some good lines there, so let's break this down.

1. Baldur's Gate 3 is a role-playing game where you ROLE-PLAY the character of your choice. Why would it matter if Larian allows the ability to role-play a transgender character? Are transgender peoples not deserving of customization choices? What would be your take on Oblivion's character creator where you could create absolute eldritch abominations?

2. In this case, this is the character creator. This is exactly where these kinds of identity options go.

3. I don't recall BG3 ever denying or obfuscating or even bringing up LGBTQ topics outside of the character creator.

4. See point 3.

5. See point 3.

 

[Battousai]

Alright, those are mostly some good lines there, so let's break this down.
What would be your take on Oblivion's character creator where you could create absolute eldritch abominations?

Yes, do it again.

 

[Battousai]

Even the lads at Penny Arcade give us a chuckle from this
https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2023/08/07/charcuterie-board

 

[Arnox]

Even the lads at Penny Arcade give us a chuckle from this
https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2023/08/07/charcuterie-board

lol Nice to see they're still going. I don't know if I like the new website though. No comment section anymore and no easy way to access the blog post that goes with the comic.

EDIT: Oh wait, I guess it was just that comic. They've included the blog post right below the comic now. I approve. Still want the comment section back though.

 

[gaijinkaiju]

Even the lads at Penny Arcade give us a chuckle from this
https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2023/08/07/charcuterie-board

I remember when penny arcade included comics in the WoW strategy guides

 

[Vendor-Lazarus]

Alright, those are mostly some good lines there, so let's break this down.

1. Baldur's Gate 3 is a role-playing game where you ROLE-PLAY the character of your choice. Why would it matter if Larian allows the ability to role-play a transgender character? Are transgender peoples not deserving of customization choices? What would be your take on Oblivion's character creator where you could create absolute eldritch abominations?

2. In this case, this is the character creator. This is exactly where these kinds of identity options go.

3. I don't recall BG3 ever denying or obfuscating or even bringing up LGBTQ topics outside of the character creator.

4. See point 3.

5. See point 3.

Transgenderism is a mental illness or a peer-pressure fad and should not be treated as normal. It's blending entertainment fiction with non-fiction in order to push an agenda.

Not only the character creator, but also in-game, in that everyone is pan-sexual.

The rewriting, denying, obfuscating facts is part of the transgender agenda in which they deny the reality of men and women as biological facts.

They're quite busy censoring, removing, and banning anyone on the SchemeDRM forum that disagrees with their wokeness.

 

[Cyberfriend]

Is that the game where you can fuck a bear?

 

[Battousai]

Is that the game where you can fuck a bear?

Trust me when I tell you the bear is not the strangest thing you can bang in that game.

 

[Arnox]

Trust me when I tell you the bear is not the strangest thing you can bang in that game.

You've had experience?

 

[Arnox]

Transgenderism is a mental illness or a peer-pressure fad and should not be treated as normal. It's blending entertainment fiction with non-fiction in order to push an agenda.

1. If there is a cross-sex option in character creation, how is that pushing agenda? There's a lot of fantastical options in the character creator. Also, Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 had a potion where it would reverse your gender. In that one, if you didn't know what the potion was (if I recall correctly), it would just transform you, period.

Not only the character creator, but also in-game, in that everyone is pan-sexual.

2. That's much more a problem with the romance options in the game rather than the character creator. Regardless though, I don't have any experience with the game at this time, so I couldn't tell you just how wild it is with the sexuality. Again though, wouldn't be far off from Larian's usual wild irreverent attitude regarding all this stuff.

The rewriting, denying, obfuscating facts is part of the transgender agenda in which they deny the reality of men and women as biological facts.

3. Consider the following. This is a magical world where literally anything is possible. In such a world as that, you can't tell me there isn't going to be at least a little gender-bending. Among other things. The line between reality and dreams is ridiculously blurry, and with that, the line between biological fact and biological myth also begins to fade into almost nothing.

They're quite busy censoring, removing, and banning anyone on the SchemeDRM forum that disagrees with their wokeness.

4. What forum? I'm confused.

 

[Battousai]

You've had experience?

You bet your ass there are weirder things to bang and I've done a few of them .

 

[Vendor-Lazarus]

1. If there is a cross-sex option in character creation, how is that pushing agenda? There's a lot of fantastical options in the character creator. Also, Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 had a potion where it would reverse your gender. In that one, if you didn't know what the potion was (if I recall correctly), it would just transform you, period.

There are no sex options to chose from in the game. Only "body types" and gender (mental/gENdeR, not sex/gender).

2. That's much more a problem with the romance options in the game rather than the character creator. Regardless though, I don't have any experience with the game at this time, so I couldn't tell you just how wild it is with the sexuality. Again though, wouldn't be far off from Larian's usual wild irreverent attitude regarding all this stuff.

No, it's a conscious choice from them. Either through extreme apathy and laziness, or judging from the other things, a deliberate decision. I don't have personal experience either, but many people, from many different kinds of talking places, have mentioned that any other char is ready to sex you at anytime, through odd dialogue choices. So it's definitely put front and center.

3. Consider the following. This is a magical world where literally anything is possible. In such a world as that, you can't tell me there isn't going to be at least a little gender-bending. Among other things. The line between reality and dreams is ridiculously blurry, and with that, the line between biological fact and biological myth also begins to fade into almost nothing.

Gender-bending isn't the same as treating male and female as optional, a spectrum, and transitory at a moments decision. Gender-bending, traps, and even cross-dressing isn't even the same as transgender. Now, it could be possible in a magical world (since everything and anything is in such a place..), but they're also supposed to be following their own internal logic. They're, once again, taking an established lore and twisting it, to push their own agenda, something outside the same lore, which is transgenderism.

4. What forum? I'm confused.

Steam. The one that sche(a)med DRM to be popular and accepted.

 

[Arnox]

treating male and female as optional, a spectrum, and transitory at a moments decision.

As far as I know, you can't change your gender or really anything about your character once set. And even if you could... What's so inconsistent about it? There's spells and potions (since 2E at least) that literally change your shape to be anything you want.

Steam. The one that sche(a)med DRM to be popular and accepted.

Yeah, well that's just the regular communications BS that infests the internet these days. XD Sanctuary exists for a reason.