List of Head Personnel Working at the Department of Governmental Efficiency (REDACTED)

[Arnox]

The following is an article taken from ProPublica. Before we get into it, some would wonder if this is doxxing or not. A fair question, though I would argue no for two big reasons.

1. These are executive government positions, and I think limiting information on them due to privacy concerns is ridiculous. I wouldn't expect anonymity from these positions any more than I would expect anonymity from presidential cabinet positions. It's called having a transparent government, and people have a right to, and also just plain need to know just who exactly is doing what. If these people wanted anonymity, then they shouldn't have accepted top government positions.

2. These positions are not normal government positions and are highly unusual. But most eyebrow-raising by far is how much power they wield. It seems the only governmental positions DOGE does not have any authority over is members of congress. (Convenient, that.) And this entire extremely far-reaching department is headed by... Elon Musk.

So yeah, names are getting released. The people need to know, regardless of whether you agree with the department's actions or not.

REDACTED

EDIT: (This list has been removed due to arguments put forth as to its value which has made me reconsider it.)

 

[Houseman]

These are executive government positions

What is the difference between a "government position" and an "executive government position"?
Is everyone who works for a federal agency fair game, then?
What about contractors that federal agencies hire?

I was several levels down from a government contract at one point in my life. Should I be doxxed too?

These positions are not normal government positions and are highly unusual.

What's a "normal government position"? This just seems like a "No True Scotsman" where you arbitrarily point at something that makes it different and say that the difference justifies it.

You need some kind of objective criteria, and even then, it would be an arbitrarily chosen objective criteria, but then at least it would be consistent.

 

[Arnox]

What is the difference between a "government position" and an "executive government position"?

Basically, a position of leadership and heavy influence.

What's a "normal government position"?

To my knowledge, there is no historical precedent for this department. Or at very least, nothing recent anyway. This was a department created directly through Donald Trump's request and, as said, has power over pretty much every governmental position besides congress. Furthermore, the department seems to violate the entire checks-and-balances system in the constitution, giving Donald Trump and co. direct power over not 1 but 2 of the 3 major brances of government.

 

[Houseman]

Basically, a position of leadership and heavy influence.

Well you've got 19 and 20-somethings in there with either no title or a title of "Expert"

To my knowledge, there is no historical precedent for this department.

Technically, the department already existed before. It's just the "United States Digital Service" being renamed.

Furthermore, the department seems to violate the entire checks-and-balances system in the constitution, giving Donald Trump and co. direct power over not 1 but 2 of the 3 major brances of government.

Is that what the facts say, or is that what Trump's enemies say?

 

[Houseman]

Separately from your justifications for doxxing non-elected government employees, what have they done so far that is so illegal or so bad?

 

[Arnox]

Well you've got 19 and 20-somethings in there with either no title or a title of "Expert"

And this is one of the problems with them trying to hide names and positions. Maybe these people are just low-level workers with no influence, or maybe they're much more influential than you would believe. We don't know because there's little transparency, so they need to be on the list for now until more concrete details are given or found.

Technically, the department already existed before. It's just the "United States Digital Service" being renamed.

The USDS was originally about digitizing the government more. It didn't originally have anything to do (or at least, wasn't ever supposed to have anything to do) with position restructuring, hiring, firing, and government finances.

Is that what the facts say, or is that what Trump's enemies say?

It's what I say. Trump's enemies very often jump on absolute red herrings and waste time with shit that doesn't matter and, in the process, crowd out the things that actually do matter. Things that should be questioned.

For example, it was said that there's little to zero drug activity at the Canadian border as per official statistics, but what the left completely fail to point out is the probable utter lack of enforcement at the northern border. All the action was dead-focused on the southern border, and you're not exactly going to catch any drugs at the northern border if you're not even looking in the first place. Drug seizures require resources. They take time. They take effort. Money. Was any of that given to the northern border? Probably not. I also heard talk that they're getting drugs through there by shipping precursors through the border and then doing final manufacturing here in the states.

In this case regarding DOGE though, hey, if I'm wrong about how much power DOGE has, let me know. It sure as hell seems to me though that DOGE gives Trump full access to two branches of government with zero oversight besides maybe congress (of which, the majority are Republicans right now).

doxxing non-elected government employees

I also want to address this too really quick. The names given here are just names. There are no addresses linked to them nor phone numbers nor email addresses. DOGE is not the CIA nor any branch of the military whatsoever. Complete anonymity of the head figures of a now extremely powerful government department headed entirely by one man is utterly unwarranted. And as I said, if they still didn't want their names out there despite their very high-profile positions then they should not have taken these jobs in the first place.

what have they done so far that is so illegal or so bad?

While not really relevant at all to my above points, members of DOGE have been accused by many different agencies of just barging into offices and demanding full access, not following any proper procedure whatsoever. Just flat out dicks out. DOGE communications have also shifted to a format not subject to FOIA transparency laws. And then there's the whole mess with the Treasury Department. DOGE accused the department of money laundering and diverting funds away to unauthorized sources, but little, if any evidence of this was given. Wired reported that Marko Elez was given unrestricted access to the entire department computer systems responsible for all payments and was currently in the process of making extensive changes to the payment systems codebase.

If DOGE is really trying to do what they say they're trying to do, which is expose and kill government corruption, wouldn't it be more serving of that purpose to actually have transparency instead of barging in to a number of huge departments in the government like terrorists at a tea party? This whole thing reeks of as much unprofessionalism and incompetence as Biden's presidential term. I'm sure that some corruption will indeed get flushed out, but after how much damage and generated distrust? And we haven't even talked about just how laughably incompetent and dumb Elon Musk is in general.

 

[Houseman]

And this is one of the problems with them trying to hide names and positions. Maybe these people are just low-level workers with no influence, or maybe they're much more influential than you would believe. We don't know because there's little transparency, so they need to be on the list for now until more concrete details are given or found.

That's a pretty conspiratorial line of reasoning. "Maybe this guy is just a nobody. OR MAYBE HE'S THE MASTERMIND! Let's ruin his life over it!"
Why not dox the janitor? He could be in on it too!

But, say he's a nobody and those "concrete details" are found. You think that would calm down the mob? No. The information would have already been out there at this point.

Many lives have been ruined by the mob of public opinion before the facts have come out.

In this case regarding DOGE though, hey, if I'm wrong about how much power DOGE has, let me know.

It should be you who has the burden of proof to prove your own claims in the first place.

I also want to address this too really quick. The names given here are just names. There are no addresses linked to them nor phone numbers nor email addresses. DOGE is not the CIA nor any branch of the military whatsoever. Complete anonymity of the head figures of a now extremely powerful government department headed entirely by one man is utterly unwarranted. And as I said, if they still didn't want their names out there despite their very high-profile positions then they should not have taken these jobs in the first place.

It's "high-profile" because you claim it is.
The department is "extremely powerful" because you claim it is.
"Headed by one man" is a qualifier because you deem it so.

Your justifications are arbitrary.

While not really relevant at all to my above points, members of DOGE have been accused by many different agencies of just barging into offices and demanding full access, not following any proper procedure whatsoever. Just flat out dicks out.

Accusations are worth nothing.

DOGE communications have also shifted to a format not subject to FOIA transparency laws.

Ok. This is not illegal.

And then there's the whole mess with the Treasury Department. DOGE accused the department of money laundering and diverting funds away to unauthorized sources, but little, if any evidence of this was given.

Accusations, even coming from DOGE, are worth nothing.

Wired reported that Marko Elez was given unrestricted access to the entire department computer systems responsible for all payments and was currently in the process of making extensive changes to the payment systems codebase.

And what has he done with this access? Anything?

If DOGE is really trying to do what they say they're trying to do, which is expose and kill government corruption, wouldn't it be more serving of that purpose to actually have transparency instead of barging in to a number of huge departments in the government like terrorists at a tea party?

Are they rooting out corruption, or just slashing spending that they deem unnecessary?
And what spending have they actually slashed? What corruption have they claimed to have rooted out?
What have they ACTUALLY done? I don't care about their intentions, I care about their actions. You haven't answered that yet.

 

[Arnox]

"Maybe this guy is just a nobody. OR MAYBE HE'S THE MASTERMIND! Let's ruin his life over it!"

Who was Markus before the Treasury Department? You would have said that he's just another innocent worker at DOGE, except we found out he's responsible for rewriting huge swaths of the Treasury codebase. So yeah, there absolutely IS precedent for each and every one of the people on this list to be quite important.

You think that would calm down the mob? No. The information would have already been out there at this point.

So what, should we just give these people in a VERY powerful department (more on that later) of the government complete secrecy because there's a mob of sweaty neckbeards on Reddit? Should we make the president completely anonymous too? Now you can just vote for lists of (supposed) qualifications and then not have any accountability for the presidential position. This smacks a lot of the same argument the government gave for demonizing Snowden. "It's classified! All classified! Everything classified. It's for everyone's security."

It should be you who has the burden of proof to prove your own claims in the first place.

Which claims? DOGE HAS been cutting governmental positions and going right for the financial throat with zero professionalism. What is there to prove? Almost everything I've talked about, I've given a direct link for.

It's "high-profile" because you claim it is.

Brave Search

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"Important or well publicized."

Now you're just being ridiculous.

The department is "extremely powerful" because you claim it is.

I would say having direct access to the Office of Personnel Management and the Department of the Treasury with the full go-ahead from the president himself makes it extremely powerful. Also,

Ramaswamy had also stated that DOGE may eliminate entire federal agencies and reduce the number of federal employees by as much as 75%.[19][20] DOGE may attempt to do this through re-implementing Schedule F, by which those in certain policy influencing positions are made easier to lay off.[21] Musk has also proposed consolidating the number of federal agencies from more than 400 to fewer than 100.[22]

"Headed by one man" is a qualifier because you deem it so.

Wait, so you're claiming that DOGE is NOT controlled directly by Trump? (Technically, Elon controls it all, but Elon reports directly to Trump, so yeah.)

Trump hints Musk ‘Doge’ team has free rein with Pentagon next in line for cuts

President says key ally and team of software engineers have gained access to Americans’ personal details ‘very easily’

www.theguardian.com

Accusations are worth nothing.

This has all been reported on by many news agencies with many departments with multiple different people. Are you saying everyone's making all that up?

Ok. This is not illegal.

Are you sure? It certainly sounds like it, and even if it's not, it's a scummy move.

Accusations, even coming from DOGE, are worth nothing.

It's almost like we need to have this TRANSPARENCY I keep banging on about.

And what has he done with this access? Anything?

I just told you. He's rewriting huge parts of the Treasury codebase. At least as Wired reports it anyway.

Are they rooting out corruption, or just slashing spending that they deem unnecessary?

Who knows! Maybe. It's classified I guess. :)

What have they ACTUALLY done? I don't care about their intentions, I care about their actions.

 

[Houseman]

Who was Markus before the Treasury Department? You would have said that he's just another innocent worker at DOGE, except we found out he's responsible for rewriting huge swaths of the Treasury codebase. So yeah, there absolutely IS precedent for each and every one of the people on this list to be quite important.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Did he rewrite to make it faster or easier to maintain? Is he porting it from COBOL to .NET?
What ACTUALLY happened? What ACTUAL harm is this causing?

So what, should we just give these people in a VERY powerful department (more on that later) of the government complete secrecy because there's a mob of sweaty neckbeards on Reddit?

You should treat these private citizens the same as you would any other private citizen, ideally.

Should we make the president completely anonymous too?

Is he a private citizen, or an elected official?

Which claims? DOGE HAS been cutting governmental positions and going right for the financial throat with zero professionalism. What is there to prove? Almost everything I've talked about, I've given a direct link for.

How many links do you think you've posted so far? I count two so far: The propublica link, and the "foia slack" link from 404media
Do you really believe those two links prove everything you've talked about?

Where, for example, is your link to prove that they've been "cutting governmental positions"?

"Important or well publicized."

Now you're just being ridiculous.

Okay, let's rephrase: "It's high-profile because the media, who hate both Trump and Elon, are publicizing it loudly and often".
Is that a better justification for doxxing?

Ramaswamy had also stated that DOGE may eliminate entire federal agencies and reduce the number of federal employees by as much as 75%.[19][20] DOGE may attempt to do this through re-implementing Schedule F, by which those in certain policy influencing positions are made easier to lay off.[21] Musk has also proposed consolidating the number of federal agencies from more than 400 to fewer than 100.[22]

They may do this, they may do that, no word yet on what they've ACTUALLY DONE!

Wait, so you're claiming that DOGE is NOT controlled directly by Trump?

No, I'm claiming that "headed by one man" is an arbitrary qualifier for doxxing people.

This has all been reported on by many news agencie

And many news agencies hate Trump and Elon.
If any of them had proof, then it wouldn't just be an accusation. I don't need to say that they're all making it up, I just have to ask where the proof is.

 

[Vendor-Lazarus]

Just chiming in to claim the middle-ground, although I'm leaning more to Houseman's view in this particular case.

Also, Wired and Guardian are known fake news.. The hate for Elon Musk is starting to border on TDS for the left.

 

[Arnox]

Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Did he rewrite to make it faster or easier to maintain? Is he porting it from COBOL to .NET?
What ACTUALLY happened? What ACTUAL harm is this causing?

Why are you asking me, man? lol If anything else though, it's VERY worrying to have someone just come in and mess with a payment system that has been (to my knowledge) working fine for years. Even if it was just a simple rewrite to another language or whatever, it's still worrying simply due to stability reasons. And if it HASN'T been working fine, then MAYBE they need to tell us why instead of trying to hide shit. All this shroud of secrecy does is give tons of justified ammo to the left.

You should treat these private citizens the same as you would any other private citizen, ideally.

As said above though, they are too high-profile to expect complete anonymity. While they are working in one of the highest ranks of government, I think it's completely fair and warranted that they are scrutinized to a much higher degree. And that's why the names are all listed here. So that scrutiny into their actions within the government can be better facilitated.

Is he a private citizen, or an elected official?

Considering the weight of Musk's position, he very much SHOULD be an elected official. In fact, there's a few other very high positions that aren't elected that should be elected positions.

Where, for example, is your link to prove that they've been "cutting governmental positions"?

Trump hints Musk ‘Doge’ team has free rein with Pentagon next in line for cuts

President says key ally and team of software engineers have gained access to Americans’ personal details ‘very easily’

www.theguardian.com

There's actually a lot in that link that is straight from Trump's own mouth that confirms basically everything I was talking about. And even IF they never cut a single position, just the THREAT that someone can lose their job if they don't completely tow the line is a huge power in its own right.

Okay, let's rephrase: "It's high-profile because the media, who hate both Trump and Elon, are publicizing it loudly and often".
Is that a better justification for doxxing?

A better way to rephrase would be these positions are high-profile because they are important. I would say that a department that completely controls other departments through control of the personnel and core payment systems is pretty fucking important, Houseman.

They may do this, they may do that, no word yet on what they've ACTUALLY DONE!

It doesn't matter if they HAVE done this 100% absolutely guaranteed because THEY (Trump and Elon) have SAID THEMSELVES that they are GOING to do this.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-advisers-weigh-plan-dismantle-department-education-wsj-reports-2025-02-03/

If they turn back entirely from this then we'll talk about that when that happens, but regardless, arguing about, "Oh, they haven't ACTUALLY done anything," is utterly irrelevant to my point. It's like those fucking EULAs. They take as many liberties as they can and give you as few rights as they are forced to, but when you ask them about it, "Oh, well we never INTENDED to do anything with those terms." Why is it in the FUCKING EULA THEN? Or in this specific case, why are they, as in Trump and co., taking all this power and talking all this shit and then planning to not do anything with it? It's ridiculous. This argument is ridiculous. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, acts like a duck, looks like a duck, and even says itself that IT'S A DUCK, then I think we can say, Houseman, that it's a fucking duck without surgically slicing it open and examining every single one of its bones and internal organs!

And many news agencies hate Trump and Elon.
If any of them had proof, then it wouldn't just be an accusation. I don't need to say that they're all making it up, I just have to ask where the proof is.

This has also been reported in the New York Times too though which is a rather right-leaning news source. And I'm sure I could find something on Fox News as well. I'd be willing to bet money on it even.

 

[Houseman]

I'll only respond to two points, which I think get to the crux of the issue:

And that's why the names are all listed here. So that scrutiny into their actions within the government can be better facilitated.

Those names just makes it easier to track those people down and harass them, or worse, commit acts of violence against them and their families. By knowing their names and ages, we gain no further insight into what they are actually doing. This isn't about scrutiny into their actions, this is about painting a target on their backs. This isn't even outing their "bad behavior" to their current employer to get them fired, which is why doxxing usually happens.

This is just about getting them killed by the hate mob.

It doesn't matter if they HAVE done this 100% absolutely guaranteed because THEY (Trump and Elon) have SAID THEMSELVES that they are GOING to do this.

Let's say that Trump and Elon do "dismantle" the department of education.
So?

If they are able to do it without a judge stopping them, it's because the authority of the office of the President allowed them to do it. That's what all this amounts to. The President is using his power to do things he is already authorized to do and people don't like it.

 

[Arnox]

Those names just makes it easier to track those people down and harass them, or worse, commit acts of violence against them and their families. By knowing their names and ages, we gain no further insight into what they are actually doing. This isn't about scrutiny into their actions, this is about painting a target on their backs. This isn't even outing their "bad behavior" to their current employer to get them fired, which is why doxxing usually happens.

This is just about getting them killed by the hate mob.

Ok, but how can we do proper investigative work into the government if the actions aren't tied to any names? Or alternatively, what if something is done in a department by DOGE that is really fucked up, but we don't know who was even responsible for that department to begin with since we didn't have any names linked to any department at all?

Let's say that Trump and Elon do "dismantle" the department of education.
So?

If they are able to do it without a judge stopping them, it's because the authority of the office of the President allowed them to do it. That's what all this amounts to. The President is using his power to do things he is already authorized to do and people don't like it.

Well, whether you actually agree with the end results is a whole different matter entirely. I never argued that the government doesn't need a thorough washing. It does. I never argued that some departments were filled with bullshit. They are. But it is the METHOD that worries me. I'm sure Trump's actions are all perfectly legal, and if they're not, then they're not and they will be blocked. But what is legal is not necessarily right. The three-branch system was put into the constitution for a reason, and if the president can just lol bypass it for the most part, then that is really fucked.

Sure, it may perhaps be fine now, but even if you agree with absolutely everything Trump does his entire term, this is still going to be Trump's last term, legally speaking, so what the hell is the next president going to do? If this all passes legal muster, then this loophole Trump has found sets a horrible precedent and completely breaks a ton of the constitution. And THAT is what I'm worried about.

It's like if an ethical hacker found a way into a server, and instead of stealing or causing harm to the server, the hacker fixes the server up and makes it better and then leaves. But the hole in the server is still there, waiting to be exploited by anyone else. Now, it is true that congress could probably patch this loophole, but are they going to? I dunno. And I'd rather not depend on congress to do the right thing.

 

[Houseman]

Ok, but how can we do proper investigative work into the government if the actions aren't tied to any names? Or alternatively, what if something is done in a department by DOGE that is really fucked up, but we don't know who was even responsible for that department to begin with since we didn't have any names linked to any department at all?

You have Elon Musk's name right there, front and center. He's the boss. Blame him. And then you have the name of his boss already. Is that not enough? Why do you need the name of the janitor, too?

Well, whether you actually agree with the end results is a whole different matter entirely. I never argued that the government doesn't need a thorough washing. It does. I never argued that some departments were filled with bullshit. They are. But it is the METHOD that worries me. I'm sure Trump's actions are all perfectly legal, and if they're not, then they're not and they will be blocked. But what is legal is not necessarily right. The three-branch system was put into the constitution for a reason, and if the president can just lol bypass it for the most part, then that is really fucked.

If Trump or Musk is doing anything unconstitutional or illegal, block them and/or punish them for it. Until then, you're just engaging in vigilante justice by trying to get the workers killed.

If this all passes legal muster, then this loophole Trump has found sets a horrible precedent and completely breaks a ton of the constitution. And THAT is what I'm worried about.

If that's what you're worried about, then there would be no need to doxx employees. You could instead, just rant about the laws and loopholes that allowed Trump to do all this. But you apparently haven't been talking about what you're most worried about until just now.

You don't doxx people for exploiting a tax loophole and try to get them killed by the hate mob, you point out that the loophole exists and explain why it needs to be fixed. You can point at the person's lifestyle and say 'look at what he has due to this loophole', but that's about it. Getting the guy killed does not close the loophole or fix the problem.

 

[Arnox]

you're just engaging in vigilante justice by trying to get the workers killed.

Ok, before we go any further, do you honestly think that that was my intention for posting this list?

 

[gaijinkaiju]

Ok, before we go any further, do you honestly think that that was my intention for posting this list?

yes

 

[Arnox]

yes

What the fuck, man?

1. If that was really my intention, this list would be a whole lot more detailed than it is now.
2. I certainly wouldn't be posting such a list publicly.
3. I very recently made a thread here about the hypocrisy of seeking the death of others at the hands of somebody else without ever exercising your own strength.

Let me make this extremely clear. No, I do not wish nor intend to bring any violence to anyone via this list. No, I do not wish nor intend for others to bring violence to anyone via this list.

Damn, you guys have been reading my posts for years now. You really should know me better than that.

 

[Houseman]

Ok, before we go any further, do you honestly think that that was my intention for posting this list?

Your intention? No.
The intention of the people who originally researched this information and compiled the list? Yes.
Then intention of many people who read and spread this list around? Yes.

Are you indirectly aiding those people with violent intentions by spreading around this list? Yes.

It would be like if someone were handing out a list of targets they wanted executed, and then you took one and posted it at the entrance of your apartment complex. You're helping.

 

[gaijinkaiju]

Your intention? No.
The intention of the people who originally researched this information and compiled the list? Yes.
Then intention of many people who read and spread this list around? Yes.

Are you indirectly aiding those people with violent intentions by spreading around this list? Yes.

It would be like if someone were handing out a list of targets they wanted executed, and then you took one and posted it at the entrance of your apartment complex. You're helping.

like this?

 

[Houseman]

Yes

 

[Signa]

What the fuck, man?

No, that was my first thought when I saw the title of the thread. Doge has no governmental power. They are just consultants. This is kinda like being upset at Twitter's Trust and Safety Team, but actually listing all the names of their employees that do the moderation and choose the posts to censor. Except, this is worse, because they aren't restricting anyone's freedoms. They are saving us all money.

Furthermore, posting lists like this will have a chilling effect on getting decent people to help fix our government. If I had the means and opportunity, I would love to help doge, but having everyone know my name because of it isn't something I would be signing up for. I actually would be upset enough at that fact alone that I would then hesitate to do it. Add in that there's a lot of violent people in opposition to me, then I have every reason to decline such an opportunity. I want to have a private life again in 4 years. These sorts of posts would prevent that from ever happening again.

 

[Arnox]

Your intention? No.

Alright. I'll move on then to your other points.

You have Elon Musk's name right there, front and center. He's the boss. Blame him. And then you have the name of his boss already. Is that not enough? Why do you need the name of the janitor, too?

Nobody's listing the names of any janitors. lol As to Elon, yes, it is very true that he has direct responsibility for everything DOGE does, but if we ever do have to prosecute Elon/DOGE, it will be a lot harder if we don't even know who did what in DOGE.

"We caught so-and-so doing this bad thing in DOGE."
"Who did you catch? They're not part of DOGE!"
"Who is then?"
"It's classified. :)"

Doge has no governmental power.

But we JUST went over extensively how they do have power, and a lot of it. Trump himself has just said he mostly gives them a very wide latitude to do what they do.

-

By the way, we FINALLY got some transparency from Elon at least, so that's good. Image of tweet is attached to this post.

 

[Houseman]

Nobody's listing the names of any janitors. lol

You are essentially doing that by listing the names of 19 year olds without titles just because they were hired.

but if we ever do have to prosecute Elon/DOGE, it will be a lot harder if we don't even know who did what in DOGE.

What do you mean "we"? "We" aren't going to be prosecuting them. If you're concerned with prosecution, let it go through the legal process, and in the legal process of discovery, those names will be revealed to the relevant parties. The mob of public opinion is not part of that process.

 

[Arnox]

What do you mean "we"?

Sorry. We, as in, the United States in general.

If you're concerned with prosecution, let it go through the legal process, and in the legal process of discovery, those names will be revealed to the relevant parties.

The legal process is not infallible though and sometimes investigation requires going out of official channels to find information.

Having thought about this some more though... *sigh* I'm still not totally sold on the idea that this list is entirely unnecessary, but considering everything together, you've still gotten me to question its value.

Very well. I'll remove the list for now.

 

[Houseman]

The legal process is not infallible

We know. Yet, we still give them power over us because we know it's better than A) nothing, and B) other alternatives, such as mob violence or vigilante justice.

I'll remove the list for now.

You don't have to. I just disagree with it, is all.