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It's sad that people like Saelune will never post here

Messages
356
#1
On the one hand, you have people who are truly open, open to ideas, open to discourse, open to all opinions. Us.
And on the other hand, you have people like Saelune.

I find it sad that, despite being so open and welcoming of all, that we will never get certain viewpoints to post here. It's a bitter irony: while we want people of all sorts to post here, certain type of people will flee from that same idea, and we'll never get to see them. That desire makes itself impossible.

IMO certain people won't come here, because either:
A) They aren't open to ideas that contradict theirs, or can't deal with being contradicted
B) They don't want to mix in company with people they are ideologically opposed to

In the end, we just become another bubble, another silo, another "safe space". Not by design or on purpose, and through no fault of or own, but because everyone else will separate themselves in their own little bubbles. We'll naturally attract people who are ideologically similar to us, and those who don't like it will never stay. No matter how nice and inviting the sign out front is, I don't think we'll ever have certain viewpoints visiting for long.

But it won't be "our" fault. We're not driving people away. People will make the decision to leave on their own. We're doing "our" job of allowing them to speak, and not censoring what they have to say.

"The point" of this place, IMO, is to hear things said that you wouldn't hear elsewhere. But I fear the only thing heard will be a homogeneous noise coming from the same types of people, and that's sad.
 

Arnox

Veteran
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
2,912
#2
I think once we start getting enough people, they'll start coming too. In fact, I'd almost say it's inevitable.
 

Signa

Libertarian Contrarian
Messages
588
#3
That's where liberal principles shine. people like Saelune are not liberals. while people like us are in control of a space, everyone gets to speak. when people like Saelune are in power, only a portion of the same people get to speak. it should be clear to any objective observer that the former is preferable, especially if you cant guarantee you'll be in the in-group or out-group on any given topic.

Just to reiterate what you said, we aren't excluding anyone, they are exiling us from them. its rare for an exclusionary mentality to be on the moral high ground.
 

Ogoid

Adherent
Messages
25
#4
You know, it is kinda sad.

I had a few exchanges with Saelune back in the Escapist, and while we disagreed on like 99% of everything we talked about, I at least thought we could have civilized - if frankly somewhat heated - conversations.

Honestly, I even miss the passive-aggressive, condescension-filled snark-offs that constantly went on there. To quote The Simpsons, "'twas all in good fun."

Well, on my part, anyway.
 
Messages
106
#7
certain people won't come here, because either:
C) They don't want to lose their food scraps:

In communism, the State and the Party were the official sources of everything good. Private altruism meant competing with them -- an activity futile at best (because the good thing you were doing would have been equally provided by the system if you didn't interfere), and subversive at worst (because by doing it you were kinda suggesting that it actually wouldn't). If an activity is good, then "obviously" it is better for it to be provided by the powerful State guided by the wise Party, than by an unreliable petty individual.

[...] if you were doing a subversive activity (an activity that could be potentially interpreted as subversive -- and yes, that is a very large range of activities), sooner or later the State would find you and punish you; and afterwards it would start looking for your accomplices. By denouncing (or not joining) the altruists you were signaling your loyalty to the State. The stone you threw at the person trying to improve the world might become your get-out-of-jail card when the secret police started collecting potential enemies of the regime. -- Now the regime is gone (not really, it is very much alive and kicking), but the habits remained.

(source)
 
Messages
148
#9
That's surprising. Why do you say that?

Saelune seems like a textbook example of a SJW. She(?) Even said "check your privilege" unironically .

Don't get me wrong, to Saelune this would probably be a Nazi Site for no apparent reason. BUT Saelune also generally supports the same Mantra we have here, at least in theory. Now, I assume that if push came to shove, Saelune would bitch about being insulted, but in theory I know they think insulting people is fair game (and I'm not refering to that on-going thread, this is something Saelune has stated at multiple places and times).

Part of being a SJW is being knowingly hyperbolic. Saelune is entirely serious with what she says.
 
Messages
33
#10
That's surprising. Why do you say that?

Saelune seems like a textbook example of a SJW. She(?) Even said "check your privilege" unironically .
There something to be said for Saelune meeting arguments head on. Even if the response is just "lol you're a nazi".

People like evilthecat are way worse.
 
Messages
148
#12
That Thread is really kinda funny. The funniest part is really that everyone just goes with Saelunes premise. The Thread is obviously in response to her recent ban. I'd be surprised if "civil" or "uncivil" weren't contained within the Warning Notice.

Thing is, incivility in and of itself isn't the issue. The issue is jumping the gun, that's why it's all so circular. There is nothing wrong with calling a Nazi a Nazi, problem is, to anyone else that's a insulting and rather serious accusation. Saelune has, multiple times demonstrated and on occasion outright stated that in her eyes being Conservative, having voted for Trump (which she at times both conflates and seperates from not voting or voting thirdparty, essentially she believes Clinton was entitled to votes because never Trump) and literally being in the KKK are all at best superficially different things. Further compounding that issue is that Saelune (and to be clear, she does not stand alone with any of these behaviors) will glady cast people into the Role of "Trump Supporter" or Conservative" and therefore also "Nazi", one need not say a positive word about any of these things, criticizing Saelune or people and concepts she agress with is also reason enough. I'd know, she accused me of being right-wing and upon my insistence that she offer some rationale, she espoused the belief that I must somehow prove otherwise.

Really, that's just obnoxious and that's stupid, but not exactly more then a minor personal failing, it becomes a problem because insulting people is against the Rules, Saelune and others are however given special discretion because they are seen as Victims and other Users cannot respond in kind. This literally would not be a issue here.
 

Elijin

Outlander
Messages
8
#13
Cant express how amusing a topic where you all pat your selves on the back for how great you all are while bashing others who are not present, who have possibly even forgotten you exist.

You guys are soooooo great. It's obviously other people's fault they wouldnt want to join such a stellar community.
 

Ogoid

Adherent
Messages
25
#14
Cant express how amusing a topic where you all pat your selves on the back for how great you all are while bashing others who are not present, who have possibly even forgotten you exist.

You guys are soooooo great. It's obviously other people's fault they wouldnt want to join such a stellar community.
I mean, it's hard to live up to the lofty standards set by a place whose Editor in Chief proudly and ostensibly declares to be "apolitical", while in the very next second proceeding to re-hire one Robert "no bad tactics, only bad targets" Chipman, but we're certainly willing to try our best.
 
Messages
33
#15
Cant express how amusing a topic where you all pat your selves on the back for how great you all are while bashing others who are not present, who have possibly even forgotten you exist.

You guys are soooooo great. It's obviously other people's fault they wouldnt want to join such a stellar community.
No ones stopping them from giving us a piece of their mind here. That doesn't go for the Escapist though, unfortunately!

For the record, I know that certain names on the escapist certainly remember who I am. I had to search your name on the Escapist to even figure out who you were. Don't @ me on here Mr Irrelevant
 
Messages
356
#16
Cant express how amusing a topic where you all pat your selves on the back for how great you all are while bashing others who are not present, who have possibly even forgotten you exist.

You guys are soooooo great. It's obviously other people's fault they wouldnt want to join such a stellar community.
My intention with this thread wasn't "we're so much better than those other guys". I literally meant what I said: "It's sad that certain types of people will never come here, due to an ideological opposition to free speech on their side". That's all.
 
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Signa

Libertarian Contrarian
Messages
588
#17
Cant express how amusing a topic where you all pat your selves on the back for how great you all are while bashing others who are not present, who have possibly even forgotten you exist.

You guys are soooooo great. It's obviously other people's fault they wouldnt want to join such a stellar community.
I don't recall anyone making the claim that we're better people than the community at The Escapist, but since you've gone and said we did, I think I'll agree anyway.

We are objectively better than someone that is enough of a danger to themselves that they belong being medicated at a mental institute.

There. Refute me.